[wp-forums] The "moderator" hat

Thu Apr 24 13:20:49 UTC 2014

That's not what I meant when I said don't answer, Andrew :)

If you want to try and help debug, that's cool. If you're replying only to chastise about a rule, or you have no idea or time to help debug that specific issue, or the person is being a hater, I strongly feel YOU, the helper, should shut up and walk away. If you're angry reading the post, don't answer. If you feel it's out of your depth (like I did with the excel pasting error), try to help but it's okay to tell them you don't know either.

What I meant, and what I feel, is that we cannot know everything and we have no obligation to answer EVERYONE. In doing so, we screw up the no-replies checkers as much as they do with bumping. :/

Sent on my iPhone 

> On Apr 24, 2014, at 2:08 AM, andrew nevins <andrew.nevins.misc at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> No there isn't, I don't think you need to worry about that. Sometimes you
> have to answer threads to probe people for more information, which does
> take them off the no-replies list but it should be the responsibility of
> the original poster to provide as much information as you can for you to
> provide a solution.
> I don't agree with Otto and Mika that you shouldn't reply to a thread if
> you don't know the answer, because most of the time the answer isn't that
> complicated and all you need to do is ask a few questions to get there.
> Getting off topic from your question, but that's why I do 1 sentence
> replies most of the time and then only give a proper reply when I know the
> answer.
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 9:10 AM, it's EMG <its.emg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ... Dang it, I forgot to add:
>> 
>> I know in the past, the volunteers all tried to not overlap with other
>> volunteers in the same support topics to prevent confusion re: too many
>> answers.
>> 
>> But sometimes, like in the example I gave above, more help really is
>> needed.  In which case, what is the best protocol on how to handle such a
>> situation?
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 1:08 AM, it's EMG <its.emg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm not a moderator but I was wondering (in relation to this discussion):
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *Is there any way for me - or anyone else - volunteering in the forums to
>>> 'forward' a support question that ends up being unmanageable/out of my
>>> league to someone who I know/we know would be able/better able to
>> answer? *
>>> Sometimes what I think is one question (based on what the person first
>>> says/talks about) ends up being something different and where I might
>> have
>>> been able to help them before, I can't anymore because the REAL question
>> is
>>> something other than what the original seemed to be.
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 12:21 AM, Josh Lobe <joshlobe at joshlobe.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Otto,
>>>> Newly 'crowned' forum moderator here.
>>>> http://wordpress.org/support/profile/josh401
>>>> 
>>>> I just wanted to say I came to this same realization during the latest
>>>> 3.9 update.
>>>> I develop a pretty popular plugin "Ultimate Tinymce".
>>>> The update to 3.9 changed so much with the inclusion of TinyMCE4, I had
>>>> to completely rewrite my code; and create a new plugin.
>>>> I'm sure many are aware... a LOT has changed with this update.
>>>> If you click on my WordPress profile.. and read some replies... you can
>>>> get a small idea of the nightmare this has been ;)
>>>> 
>>>> In the end.. I decided last night.. not to let it aggravate me anymore.
>>>> You can lead a horse to water... but you certainly can't make them
>> drink.
>>>> This is so very true with close-minded people, and trying to get them to
>>>> understand a logical perspective.
>>>> It's simply not going to happen.
>>>> By remaining positive and constructive... it minimizes their urge to
>>>> retaliate.
>>>> Usually.. if they aren't getting a 'rise'... the conversation will stay
>>>> more productive.
>>>> 
>>>> I have to admit, I've made a couple statements in the forums I've
>>>> regretted.  (many directed at me, personally :)
>>>> But, it's helped me learn how NOT to respond.
>>>> 
>>>> It has been a pleasure working with WordPress the past three years.. and
>>>> I intend on staying.
>>>> I very much appreciate the opportunity to join this group of 'elite'!
>>>> 
>>>> Take care for now.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 4/24/2014 2:20 AM, Otto wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 10:08 AM, andrew nevins <
>>>>> andrew.nevins.misc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> And yes, that means we cannot be JUST ourselves when we're in the
>> forums
>>>>>> because we represent a part of WordPress.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don't understand this bit, because everyone represents a part of
>>>>>> WordPress regardless of whether they have powers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You, and all the other moderators, are in a position of authority. What
>>>>> you
>>>>> say matters. In that sense, I'd like what you say to be a)
>> professional,
>>>>> b)
>>>>> factual, and c) correct.
>>>>> 
>>>>> If you don't know an answer, that's fine. Just phone-a-friend here or
>>>>> elsewhere and get somebody else to answer. Or let it go. You can't
>> answer
>>>>> everything. That's why we have many moderators and volunteers and other
>>>>> people doing their best, all the time.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But what I'm really seeing a lot, and which gets the most complaints,
>> is
>>>>> the slight snarkiness and the somewhat overbearing nature of the
>> replies.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It's simple really. These are people who have a problem and may be
>>>>> venting
>>>>> a bit. And that's just fine. Venting doesn't hurt us. You are not the
>>>>> defenders of the crown, and you do not have to justify anything to
>>>>> anybody.
>>>>> All I ask is that you be consistently helpful. If you can't help, then
>>>>> don't try. Let it go.
>>>>> 
>>>>> More and more, after every update, after every change that upsets
>>>>> somebody,
>>>>> we get complaints about the moderators. And sometimes (not always),
>>>>> they're
>>>>> justified complaints. Let people vent their righteous anger at the
>> world.
>>>>> It hurts nobody and makes them feel better. Whatever. Don't argue back,
>>>>> don't delete their posts (you can edit out the cussing, this is a
>> family
>>>>> friendly forum, after all), and don't close their threads. Let 'em be
>>>>> pissed. The only response you should give is a helpful, factual one.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Example:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "I'M ANGRY ABOUT THE LACK OF IMAGE BORDERS IN 3.9! BLAARRRRGGGH!"
>>>>> 
>>>>> Response:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "We're sorry that you don't like it. If it helps, here's a plugin, or
>>>>> here's how to edit your theme to do whatever it is that you want to
>> do."
>>>>> 
>>>>> Reply:
>>>>> 
>>>>> "ANGER! RAGE! NOT GOOD ENOUGH, YOU'RE ALL IDIOTS!"
>>>>> 
>>>>> ... No response should be made to this. The thread should just be left
>> to
>>>>> die a natural death.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We cannot solve all the problems of the world. We should not try to do
>>>>> so.
>>>>> We should seek instead to be most effective at helping the most people
>>>>> instead.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As the great Dante Hicks once said, "Sometimes, you gotta let those
>>>>> hard-to-reach chips go."
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Otto
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