[wp-hackers] WordPress Search
david at ernsts.us
Thu Oct 31 13:17:19 UTC 2013
> Google doesn't know what is important on your website as well as you do,
> Google just takes a generic approach, but you can tailor it to your content.
Simon, are you suggesting that Google Custom Search ignores PageRank? Did I
understand you correctly?
On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Simon Dunton - WP Sites <
simon at wpsites.co.uk> wrote:
> Elasticsearch is a more complicated route but if search is important to
> you and you want total control then it's a good option.
> Elasticsearch has a number of analyzers that can be used to break up the
> query and index tokens
> http://www.elasticsearch.org/guide/en/elasticsearch/reference/current/analysis-standard-analyzer.htmlso you could for instance pretty easily replace textual representations of
> numbers in the query; so "5 Pillars" could be automatically converted to
> "(5 OR five) Pillars".
> It's probably an impossible task to create your own version of Google but
> in many cases for your own data especially if it's a bit more specialised I
> think a custom Elasticsearch solution is going to be more relevant than
> Google could ever be. Google doesn't know what is important on your website
> as well as you do, Google just takes a generic approach, but you can tailor
> it to your content. Just for generic text i.e. if your site is a blog about
> general stuff your not going to have too much to work with but if your site
> was the WordPress codex/forums then you're going to know a whole load more
> about your sites data and structure than Google and you can use that edge
> to create a better search experience for your users than you could ever get
> from Google Custom Search.
> Sorry if I waffled a bit there, in a bit of a rush with work!
> On 31 Oct 2013, at 11:18, Haluk Karamete wrote:
> > Thank you for your feedback Simon.
> > After you pointing out that a custom Google search is not as good as
> > search, I compared these two;
> > this one searches "advanced taxonomy posts" on wordpress.org web site
> > http://wordpress.org/search/advanced%20taxonomy%20posts
> > and this one searches "advanced taxonomy posts" on google.com with a
> > operator attached (site:wordpress.org)
> > Obviously results are pretty close but not identical. Both are good and
> > share a lot in common.
> > I have done some other searches but I feel like Google search results
> are a
> > little better, more mature. But it makes me think why there is a
> > difference?
> > I guess there are some settings internally set somewhere and that
> > the way the results are served. ( PS. I'm *not* referring here how the
> > search results are displayed format wise, I mean the actual order and the
> > result set... ) They are definitely not identical.
> > As to the elasticsearch you refer to, from an earlier look, it looks
> like a
> > complicated route to me.
> > Does the elasticsearch be able to handle "5 Pillars" and the "Tariq
> > Ramadan" examples I gave you in my earlier post?
> > Can it handle 5+5 type search? ( Not that I need this but... )
> > Could elasticsearch leverage Google search with all of its intelligence,
> > is it a complete "DIY" situation here?
> > I'm just curious.
> > On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 3:38 AM, Simon Dunton - WP Sites <
> > simon at wpsites.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> WordPress.org must be using https://www.google.co.uk/cse/
> >> In my opinion Google custom search engines are useless. Yes you can
> >> specify which sites you want to index and tweak some settings but in my
> >> experience the results aren't as good as a normal Google search (I used
> >> years ago so might have improved since then) and besides, do you really
> >> want Google to decide which factors are most relevant when it comes to
> >> searching on your website?
> >> I think the best way is get your self an elasticsearch instance/cluster
> >> have all your post content automatically feed into elasticsearch to be
> >> indexed and you're totally in control.
> >> Simon
> >> On 31 Oct 2013, at 09:15, Haluk Karamete wrote:
> >>> Hi Guys...
> >>> I have a question that has two parts...
> >>> One philosophical and the other is practical... before I get into that,
> >> let
> >>> me set the context of this question.
> >>> This question does not apply to small business or blogs.
> >>> It applies to huge sites that have thousands of posts, perhaps over
> >> 100,000.
> >>> Search is a key feature to me, like to many other people.
> >>> I know there are a ton of great plugins out there specializing on
> >>> There are great minds & work behind those plugins & I respect the work
> >>> highly.
> >>> But when it comes to search, I don't think Google is beatable.
> >>> I think no matter how dedicated a group might be, they won't be able to
> >>> come up with something that does better than what Google can. I'm
> >> including
> >>> in this statement Yahoo & Bing, let alone the plugins that I've talked
> >>> about.
> >>> There are 2 kinds of searches to me.
> >>> the kind that is super accurate ( accurate to the dot ) and this kind
> >>> search usually comes with no wisdom. They are handy for certain
> >>> implementations such as searching a code base.. you can go really
> >> accurate
> >>> with all kinds of and's & or's & contains etc... like an editor's
> >> search
> >>> and there is the other kind of search.. this one comes with wisdom.
> >>> it won't match to certain results because it *somehow* factors in some
> >>> wisdom, and it simply avoids some results that the first type of search
> >>> mentality I've referred above. For example, a query on "Ramadan" won't
> >>> match "Tariq Ramadan" here. But yet a query on "5 Pillars" matches
> >>> Pillars". Well, that's google.
> >>> I'd like to hear your opinions on this. Cause I maybe seeing it wrong,
> >>> there could be some solutions that come somewhat close to Google's way
> >>> doing it. But honestly, I'm almost 100% sure, that there is no better
> >> way.
> >>> Until you convince me otherwise, I would think that if you are in
> >> of
> >>> a site like TechCrunch, New York Times or NPR etc, the search must be
> >> based
> >>> on Google.
> >>> Second part of my question is if you agree with this point of view of
> >> mine,
> >>> would you please give me a few leads as to which plugins or solutions
> >> that
> >>> you may recommend that would integrate Google search into a WordPress
> >> site.
> >>> And BTW, I just did a search on wordpress.org just to see how
> >> Wordpress.org
> >>> was handling the search ( cause honestly, I did not know how the codex
> >>> handled the search aspect & I was going to compare wordpress.org's
> >> search
> >>> results to google with site:wordpress.org - but it turned out that
> >>> WordPress.org too adapted Google when it comes to search. :)
> >>> In that case, I could ask now if there is a recommended practice in
> >> setting
> >>> up the custom google seathe way Wordpress.org did.
> >>> THank you
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