[wp-hackers] Making WordPress database independent

Tue Feb 8 08:38:56 UTC 2011

Apart from opening and checking all files individually, is there any better
way to figure out all sql queries in all files? may be regex

On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 2:16 AM, Piyush Mishra <me at piyushmishra.com> wrote:

> I have started the project on github
> https://github.com/piyushmishra/WordPressDAO . I will add the test suite
> after I have made the basic necessary changes. anyone who is interested can
> mail me /msg me on github. lets do it together :)
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 1:35 AM, Scott Kingsley Clark <scott at skcdev.com>wrote:
>
>> Great, that's what we need. People like you to stand up, put the
>> effort in, and let your voice be heard!
>>
>> -Scott
>>
>>
>> On Feb 7, 1:57 pm, Piyush Mishra <m... at piyushmishra.com> wrote:
>> > I dont hope that they take it in, may be I do hope that they see and
>> > understand the need and may be put a different implementation or
>> whatever
>> > suits the community more. I am not pro enough to make something that is
>> > perfect for everyone in its first go. but surely I love WP enough to
>> push it
>> > in the direction I feel is right for its future.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 1:00 AM, Scott Kingsley Clark <sc... at skcdev.com
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > Actually, trunk is the current version of whatever's being developed,
>> > > right now that's 3.1 - though I must warn you that if you do fork this
>> > > on github and put your work into this - there is a very slim chance
>> > > your work will be considered for core. The only good you're probably
>> > > doing here is that you're giving other people a good starting point at
>> > > doing something similar. So don't walk into this thinking it's going
>> > > to get into core, walk into this as you're taking one of the first
>> > > steps towards showing how this can be done.
>> >
>> > > WP will likely remain on SVN for some time to come, though there are
>> > > internal talks of other options which involves a considerable amount
>> > > of time that may or may not make it feasible in the near future.
>> >
>> > > -Scott
>> >
>> > > On Feb 7, 1:26 pm, Piyush Mishra <m... at piyushmishra.com> wrote:
>> > > > Does the code athttp://core.svn.wordpress.org/trunk/remainat the
>> > > current
>> > > > development revision of WordPress? I can start the move from my end
>> by
>> > > > cloning that into a github repo, work on it and developers who want
>> the
>> > > > change can fork>update and send pull requests, if the core devs see
>> the
>> > > move
>> > > > and understand the need of the change, they can move it back to
>> svn/any
>> > > new
>> > > > versioning system that WP is planning? As Scott pointed out, "I
>> think I
>> > > can"
>> >
>> > > > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:46 AM, Scott Kingsley Clark <
>> sc... at skcdev.com
>> > > >wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > Right, in my experience using a CMS is like buying a home. You
>> know
>> > > > > you may eventually move so you're willing to make some
>> concessions,
>> > > > > but if it's missing something you absolutely want then you're more
>> > > > > than likely going to look at other houses that have it over taking
>> a
>> > > > > house that doesn't. For businesses, it's sort of the same thing
>> since
>> > > > > people looking at a CMS look for certain features that they need,
>> if a
>> > > > > CMS doesn't have it then they're going to move onto other ones
>> that do
>> > > > > - and WP never knows about it because they glance at WP and it's
>> > > > > requirements and say "That can't do that", regardless of the
>> existence
>> > > > > of some complicated installation process to get it to do what they
>> > > > > want. You could almost compare this to life before Custom Post
>> Types,
>> > > > > in which you could just use Pages or Posts with categories for
>> > > > > everything. Yeah, you could get it done - but it's not an
>> efficient
>> > > > > solution - it's a hack.
>> >
>> > > > > -Scott
>> >
>> > > > > On Feb 7, 1:09 pm, Piyush Mishra <m... at piyushmishra.com> wrote:
>> > > > > > oh, I dont think I can work my way through the talking with core
>> devs
>> > > and
>> > > > > > contributors and explaining/realizing why or why not to support
>> more
>> > > > > dbmses
>> > > > > > What I can do is, complete the layer on a fork of wordpress on
>> github
>> > > > > with
>> > > > > > some help and may be hope for the core devs to pull that in as
>> the
>> > > work
>> > > > > is
>> > > > > > already done. I can work on it as a GSoC project and lend a
>> helping
>> > > hand.
>> >
>> > > > > > As far as I know, in regex vs rewrite, rewrite wins hands down
>> in
>> > > > > > performance, cleaner codes, decoupling. and I dont need
>> numbers/tests
>> > > to
>> > > > > > prove that. now the fact that almost all people use wordpress
>> with
>> > > MySQL
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > the core devs donot feel the need to implement the layer, imho
>> is
>> > > kind of
>> > > > > > mutual. people wont know/use any product for something that the
>> > > product
>> > > > > > doesn't support out of the box / with some simplistic plugin. if
>> they
>> > > > > need
>> > > > > > another dbms so bad and donot get a simple solution for it, they
>> can
>> > > > > simply
>> > > > > > switch to another CMS/framework that supports it or if they
>> really
>> > > love
>> > > > > wp,
>> > > > > > they'll probably make hacks better than adding db.php(obviously
>> > > putting
>> > > > > them
>> > > > > > out of the updates cycle) so this MySQL only trend can go on
>> forever.
>> > > :(
>> >
>> > > > > > On Tue, Feb 8, 2011 at 12:21 AM, Scott Kingsley Clark <
>> > > sc... at skcdev.com
>> > > > > >wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > > > Some discussion has been made on the WordPress Core Trac
>> regarding
>> > > > > > > supporting other database types, though it appears that the
>> > > direction
>> > > > > > > that WordPress core has taken is against supporting other
>> database
>> > > > > > > types comes at the cost of increasing the amount of effort in
>> > > either
>> > > > > > > rewriting functions and / or RegEx-ing your way through the
>> > > barriers
>> > > > > > > that the MySQL only support WordPress currently restricts
>> itself
>> > > to.
>> > > > > > > Yes, many developers have gone through this and built
>> solutions of
>> > > > > > > many different types, but it doesn't compare to what real
>> > > integration
>> > > > > > > could bring, or additional provisions within Core for these
>> > > efforts.
>> >
>> > > > > > > Any attempt to abstract WordPress beyond MySQL will only waste
>> core
>> > > > > > > dev time as they have to then explain why they won't be making
>> any
>> > > > > > > changes. I apologize for my own time wasting on that end - I
>> > > believe
>> > > > > > > some sort of page in the Codex or About section of the WP.org
>> > > should
>> > > > > > > compile the full explanation of the reasoning behind the
>> MySQL-only
>> > > > > > > support WP core has restricted itself to with some sort of
>> evidence
>> > > in
>> > > > > > > favor of that restriction, offering up additional resources to
>> > > plugins
>> > > > > > > which were developed to support other engines that have been
>> > > > > > > recommended by core devs or other respectable devs / firms in
>> the
>> > > WP
>> > > > > > > community.
>> >
>> > > > > > > There's much to be done, calling WP a full blown CMS right now
>> is
>> > > > > > > tough, since many people's idea of 'full' can be different. In
>> this
>> > > > > > > database discussion, a great question rises yet again as it
>> has
>> > > over
>> > > > > > > the past many years of WP's life.
>> >
>> > > > > > > Will there be some form of redemption by core as more
>> community
>> > > > > > > members speak out in favor of additional support? No one can
>> tell,
>> > > at
>> > > > > > > least not for the very near future. We'll see how the
>>  WordPress
>> > > > > > > landscape changes over the next few years. For now, your only
>> hope
>> > > is
>> > > > > > > to prove them wrong -- that people want to use these other
>> database
>> > > > > > > engines -- with solid proof of why it would be a good addition
>> to
>> > > core
>> > > > > > > and the impact it could have in making WordPress better for
>> more
>> > > > > > > people than just MySQL alone. Think of your task as being a
>> > > prosecutor
>> > > > > > > in a court case, WordPress is the defendant, and you've got to
>> > > > > > > persuade the jury (Core Devs and major contributors) to see
>> the
>> > > future
>> > > > > > > and what they're doing by limiting growth.
>> >
>> > > > > > > That's my two dollars anyways.. I've been from the bottom to
>> top of
>> > > > > > > the Core Dev ladder, the answer is the same all around -- They
>> > > simply
>> > > > > > > don't have this as a priority or even in sights for the next
>> few
>> > > years
>> > > > > > > and for it to happen we will need to orchestrate this as a
>> > > community
>> > > > > > > effort to prove to them that it is a priority. I know right
>> now, it
>> > > > > > > seems like we're protesting about the war in Vietnam (US
>> History),
>> > > but
>> > > > > > > we can only make a difference if it's truly what the community
>> > > wants
>> > > > > > > and is the 'right' choice to expand the use of WordPress and
>> it's
>> > > > > > > ability to perform to meet the needs of everyone who it can
>> > > benefit.
>> >
>> > > > > > > Good luck until then, just say "I think I can", sorry for the
>> video
>> > > -
>> > > > > > > I had to:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoVRV_xGEqc
>> >
>> > > > > > > -Scott
>> >
>> > > > > > > On Feb 7, 11:23 am, Piyush Mishra <m... at piyushmishra.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > May be using DAOs will help. we can push all functionality
>> to the
>> > > DAO
>> > > > > of
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > respective db layer and simple inbuilt functions from the
>> > > specific
>> > > > > vendor
>> > > > > > > > can be used where needed and in other databases, the same
>> > > features
>> > > > > can be
>> > > > > > > > implemented at the code level??
>> > > > > > > > Just an idea yet. but it seems good to me.
>> > > > > > > > 1 factory, 1 PDO or similar base class and few interfaces
>> and
>> > > their
>> > > > > mysql
>> > > > > > > > implementation will get us to where we currently stand with
>> > > MySQL, we
>> > > > > > > might
>> > > > > > > > not actually need whole ORMs etc
>> >
>> > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 7, 2011 at 10:33 PM, Brian Layman <
>> > > > > > > wp-hack... at thecodecave.com>wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > > > > > On 2/7/2011 11:49 AM, Piyush Mishra wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > > > > >> With NoSQL picking up craze, postgre gaining popularity
>> and
>> > > > > WordPress
>> > > > > > > > >> moving
>> > > > > > > > >> towards being a complete CMS, its a move that we should
>> make.
>> > > > > > > > >> Propel might be a good option, may be DAOs.
>> > > > > > > > >> But this option is good for progress of the CMS as a
>> whole.
>> > > > > > > > >> I bet people will start discovering new areas for
>> improvement
>> > > > > within
>> > > > > > > the
>> > > > > > > > >> core as they implement database abstraction.
>> >
>> > > > > > > > > Will they?  Admittedly anything that causes people to look
>> at
>> > > code
>> > > > > > > again
>> > > > > > > > > can do that, but would it introduce any major
>> improvements?
>> > > > > Remember -
>> > > > > > > every
>> > > > > > > > > feature that isn't supported in MySQL and all our
>> "supported"
>> > > > > database
>> > > > > > > > > engines would be excluded from use..  Heck, we can't even
>> > > > > generically
>> > > > > > > use
>> > > > > > > > > features that require MySQL 5.0 yet (assuming 3.1 hasn't
>> > > dropped
>> > > > > before
>> > > > > > > I
>> > > > > > > > > hit send).
>> >
>> > > > > > > > > I'm really curious to see how having access to stored
>> > > procedures,
>> > > > > > > triggers,
>> > > > > > > > > views will affect the WordPress Core.  I wonder where that
>> > > rabbit
>> > > > > trail
>> > > > > > > will
>> > > > > > > > > lead us....
>> >
>> > read more »
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards
> Piyush Mishra
> http://www.piyushmishra.com/
> Life's Short, Live it to the maximum
>
>

-- 
Regards
Piyush Mishra
http://www.piyushmishra.com/
Life's Short, Live it to the maximum