[wp-hackers] wp-hackers Digest, Vol 53, Issue 48

Fri Aug 7 12:35:21 UTC 2009

please dont send me messenges anymore

> From: wp-hackers-request at lists.automattic.com
> Subject: wp-hackers Digest, Vol 53, Issue 48
> To: wp-hackers at lists.automattic.com
> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 11:48:53 +0000
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: Replacing class="alignright" etc Was: Re: [wp-hackers]
> Linking stylesheet to RSS feeds (Jeremy Clarke)
> 2. Re: Replacing class="alignright" etc Was: Re: [wp-hackers]
> Linking stylesheet to RSS feeds (Lynne Pope)
> 3. Re: How do you get jQuery tabs working in Wordpress 2.8?
> (Daiv Mowbray)
> 4. Re: How do you get jQuery tabs working in Wordpress 2.8?
> (Daiv Mowbray)
> 5. Re: How do you get jQuery tabs working in Wordpress 2.8?
> (Dylan Kuhn)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 21:18:54 -0400
> From: Jeremy Clarke <jer at simianuprising.com>
> Subject: Re: Replacing class="alignright" etc Was: Re: [wp-hackers]
> Linking stylesheet to RSS feeds
> To: wp-hackers at lists.automattic.com
> Message-ID:
> <e1202cb10906181818r799c1b9nd6d533362847c153 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Lynne Pope<lynne.pope at gmail.com> wrote:
> > And, for me, this has nothing to do with accessibility and everything to do
> > with usability - there are some really badly designed sites out there that
> > seem to put design above readability!
> 
> I doubt any of these problems are caused by aligning photos inside
> post text using float: I know the kind of issues you are talking
> about, but they are usually caused by bad text formatting choices. I'd
> NEVER try to impose my text formatting choices on someone reading an
> RSS feed (i hate even doing it with email), but that's a really
> different issue from alignment.
> 
> 
> >> I mean, in the context of
> >> a blog post .alignright is almost structural for the content. An image
> >> that's .alignright has a very specific semantic relationship with the
> >> paragraph that follows it (e.g. it might say 'the photo to the right'
> >> in the text).
> >
> > Those two classes aren't semantic. There is nothing about alignright that
> > says it must align to the right. It's not always aligned or floated to the
> > right even in WordPress core, which overrides it and flips it around for
> > sites that use RTL.
> 
> To be clear, I wasn't saying that .alignright is itself actually a
> semantic bit of markup. Rather I was saying that the use of
> .alignright inside of a post is more than just a style decision, its a
> structural content decision, and thus semantic in the *intent* of the
> person using it on a photo . The fact that WP swaps the actual float
> for RTL is a perfect example: it is working with the intended semantic
> meaning of the right alignment rather than a specific style one.
> You're right that there's nothing in class="alignright" that says it
> needs to float right, but its still an incredibly useful convention,
> and the way the WP post editor presents it is more about post
> structure and layout than about style.
> 
> On some level I'm just bemoaning the lack of an actual XHTML property
> that lets you control alignment, because I think alignment IS a
> structural issue within site content. Sure, <center> was a bad idea,
> but the fact is that when we are creating mixed-media content (photos,
> videos, pullquotes) we naturally want ways to control left and right
> alignment. Removing align="left" from html was a good idea because
> it's not how you should set up your site's sidebar, but its a shame
> because now our posts end up looking like 1995 when they're viewed
> using modern tools. I think it's pretty logically sound to say that
> right alignment of photos in a blog post is more than a 'style' issue,
> it's part of the content of the post. It just happens that CSS 'style'
> is the only means of achieving right alignment.
> 
> I think if nothing else floating of images deserves a spot as an
> exception to the rule against inline styles in posts. I also doubt you
> would even notice, let alone be upset or find usability problems with
> a feed that used basic floating and margins on images to make the
> layout nicer (unless you get upset on principal, which is valid but
> probably not productive ;)
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeremy Clarke
> Code and Design | globalvoicesonline.org
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 19:44:21 +1200
> From: Lynne Pope <lynne.pope at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Replacing class="alignright" etc Was: Re: [wp-hackers]
> Linking stylesheet to RSS feeds
> To: wp-hackers at lists.automattic.com
> Message-ID:
> <427667db0906190044p7da29450ia9ebccacc40db4cb at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> 2009/6/19 Jeremy Clarke <jer at simianuprising.com>
> 
> > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Lynne Pope<lynne.pope at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > And, for me, this has nothing to do with accessibility and everything to
> > do
> > > with usability - there are some really badly designed sites out there
> > that
> > > seem to put design above readability!
> >
> > I doubt any of these problems are caused by aligning photos inside
> > post text using float: I know the kind of issues you are talking
> > about, but they are usually caused by bad text formatting choices. I'd
> > NEVER try to impose my text formatting choices on someone reading an
> > RSS feed (i hate even doing it with email), but that's a really
> > different issue from alignment.
> 
> 
> I agree that image alignment in feeds is an issue, but its a slippery slope.
> The person who wants to align their images also generally wants to format
> captions, apply fonts or colours, and generally take over the user
> experience ;)
> 
> 
> >> I mean, in the context of
> > >> a blog post .alignright is almost structural for the content. An image
> > >> that's .alignright has a very specific semantic relationship with the
> > >> paragraph that follows it (e.g. it might say 'the photo to the right'
> > >> in the text).
> > >
> >
> >
> > > Those two classes aren't semantic. There is nothing about alignright that
> > > says it must align to the right. It's not always aligned or floated to
> > the
> > > right even in WordPress core, which overrides it and flips it around for
> > > sites that use RTL.
> >
> > To be clear, I wasn't saying that .alignright is itself actually a
> > semantic bit of markup. Rather I was saying that the use of
> > .alignright inside of a post is more than just a style decision, its a
> > structural content decision, and thus semantic in the *intent* of the
> > person using it on a photo . The fact that WP swaps the actual float
> > for RTL is a perfect example: it is working with the intended semantic
> > meaning of the right alignment rather than a specific style one.
> 
> 
> I don't want to get into an argument over semantics, but classes that are
> purely for presentation/design can only be called semantic, at a stretch, if
> they add to the understanding of the content. I see where you are coming
> from, but since class="alignright" actually aligns to the left in RTL
> themes, and can in fact be made to align almost anywhere, there really isn't
> any meaning to it. You could call it
> class="completely-nonsemantic-presentational-element" and still use it the
> exact same way ;)
> I guess it could be argued that its "somewhat" semantic if it does align to
> the right. Not convinced though!
> 
> On some level I'm just bemoaning the lack of an actual XHTML property
> > that lets you control alignment, because I think alignment IS a
> > structural issue within site content. Sure, <center> was a bad idea,
> > but the fact is that when we are creating mixed-media content (photos,
> > videos, pullquotes) we naturally want ways to control left and right
> > alignment. Removing align="left" from html was a good idea because
> > it's not how you should set up your site's sidebar, but its a shame
> > because now our posts end up looking like 1995 when they're viewed
> > using modern tools. I think it's pretty logically sound to say that
> > right alignment of photos in a blog post is more than a 'style' issue,
> > it's part of the content of the post. It just happens that CSS 'style'
> > is the only means of achieving right alignment.
> 
> 
> Sorry, disagree - its purely presentational. CSS allows styling, and HTML
> itself never really controlled this, except by allowing inline styling.
> Again, this is styling, not document structure.
> 
> 
> > I think if nothing else floating of images deserves a spot as an
> > exception to the rule against inline styles in posts. I also doubt you
> > would even notice, let alone be upset or find usability problems with
> > a feed that used basic floating and margins on images to make the
> > layout nicer (unless you get upset on principal, which is valid but
> > probably not productive ;)
> 
> 
> Styles have specificity and cascade. A few years back, some feed readers
> were caught on the hop when people started applying styles to their feeds.
> The result of this was that styled feeds were suddenly imposing their
> styling on every subsequent feed in the cascade, when viewed in the reader.
> This is not a problem if the reader/aggregator is displaying only one feed
> item at a time. It's still a problem for people who display external feed
> content on their own sites.
> 
> Think about it - if you use "alignright" on your site for content placement
> when the site is viewed in a browser, and you import a feed to your site
> which also uses "alignright", the feeds styling will override your own CSS
> unless you have deliberately added specificity. .alignright may be styled
> to clear floats, adding padding or margins, to apply borders or whatever -
> you get no control over this styling if its embedded in inlne styles. If a
> site does not float images, and uses a feed that does, can you imagine the
> screaming that would ensue?
> 
> I send an icon/logo with feeds, and I like seeing these in feeds I subscribe
> to. However, RSS is XML for a reason - its pure data format for machines and
> its designed to be display agnostic. To me, it becomes less than useful if
> styling is applied to individual feeds - might was well go to the web page.
> At least then,users get the option to view content with CSS off or go to
> print view ;)
> 
> But that's just me. I've unsubscribed to feeds that have forced styling on
> me, and the minute a feed throws in an image that is not meaningful to
> content, they are deleted from my subscriptions. Your mileage may vary ;)
> 
> Lynne
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:44:24 +0200
> From: Daiv Mowbray <daiv at daivmowbray.com>
> Subject: Re: [wp-hackers] How do you get jQuery tabs working in
> Wordpress 2.8?
> To: wp-hackers at lists.automattic.com
> Message-ID: <4ED1CF39-5DCF-4DFD-A494-9089C25D287E at daivmowbray.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
> 
> 
> Hi thanx for the feedback, and well, I'm perplexed.
> I've applied the jquery as such;
> 
> function create_ui_tabs() {
> 
> jQuery(function() {
> var selector = '#ssslider';
> if ( typeof jQuery.prototype.selector === 'undefined' ) {
> // We have jQuery 1.2.x, tabs work better on UL
> selector += ' > ul';
> }
> jQuery( selector ).tabs({ fxFade: true, fxSpeed: 'slow' });
> 
> });
> };
> 
> jQuery(document).ready(function(){
> create_ui_tabs();
> });
> ____________________________________
> 
> and my html is:
> 
> <div id="ssslider" class="ui-tabs">
> <ul id="ssnav" class="ui-tabs-nav">
> <li class="ui-tabs-selected"><a 
> href="#fragment-1"><span>Global Options</span></a></li>
> <li class="ui-state-default"><a 
> href="#fragment-2"><span>Plugins Appearance</span></a></li>
> <li class="ui-state-default" style="display: none;"><a 
> href="#fragment-9"><span>Comment Slider</span></a></li>
> </ul>
> <div id="fragment-1" class="ui-tabs-panel">
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 18, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Dylan Kuhn wrote:
> 
> > I found by experimenting that in jQuery 1.3.x I have to select the 
> > container
> > of the tab UL, whereas in 1.2.x I had been selecting the UL itself. My
> > attempt (not claiming best practice) at code to work in both is 
> > something
> > like:
> 
> 
> ----------
> Daiv Mowbray
> daiv at daivmowbray.com
> ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:49:07 +0200
> From: Daiv Mowbray <daiv at daivmowbray.com>
> Subject: Re: [wp-hackers] How do you get jQuery tabs working in
> Wordpress 2.8?
> To: wp-hackers at lists.automattic.com
> Message-ID: <38983EE9-79C5-478F-8809-6D6BAF7013F6 at daivmowbray.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> 
> Correction to my last post:
> 
> It seems that I failed to update cache or something.
> This following does work for 2.7 and 2.8 :
> ______________________
> 
> <script type="text/javascript">
> // <![CDATA[
> 
> function create_ui_tabs() {
> jQuery(function() {
> var selector = '#ssslider';
> if ( typeof jQuery.prototype.selector === 'undefined' ) {
> // We have jQuery 1.2.x, tabs work better on UL
> selector += ' > ul';
> }
> jQuery( selector ).tabs({ fxFade: true, fxSpeed: 'slow' });
> 
> });
> }
> 
> jQuery(document).ready(function(){
> create_ui_tabs();
> });
> 
> // ]]>
> </script>
> __________________________
> 
> 
> 
> On Jun 19, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Daiv Mowbray wrote:
> 
> > Hi thanx for the feedback, and well, I'm perplexed.
> > I've applied the jquery as such;
> 
> 
> ----------
> Daiv Mowbray
> daiv at daivmowbray.com
> ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 04:49:31 -0600
> From: Dylan Kuhn <dylankkuhn at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [wp-hackers] How do you get jQuery tabs working in
> Wordpress 2.8?
> To: wp-hackers at lists.automattic.com
> Message-ID:
> <e7471da80906190349y6cc1274dvdbaaa72a79adb4c4 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Good. Just for clarity, I think the only necessary code is the content of
> you create_ui_tabs function. jQuery( function() { } ) is a shortcut for
> jQuery(document).ready( function() { } ) - maybe a good example of how
> shortcuts can reduce readbility.
> 
> Secondly, I agree with Heiko that testing the UI version is probably more
> robust, since tabs() is UI code. I also agree with Ozh that not using tabs
> at all is much more robust :). I'll probably use a compromise myself for
> now.
> 
> -dylan-
> 
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 3:49 AM, Daiv Mowbray <daiv at daivmowbray.com> wrote:
> 
> > Correction to my last post:
> >
> > It seems that I failed to update cache or something.
> > This following does work for 2.7 and 2.8 :
> > ______________________
> >
> > <script type="text/javascript">
> > // <![CDATA[
> >
> > function create_ui_tabs() {
> > jQuery(function() {
> > var selector = '#ssslider';
> > if ( typeof jQuery.prototype.selector === 'undefined' ) {
> > // We have jQuery 1.2.x, tabs work better on UL
> > selector += ' > ul';
> > }
> > jQuery( selector ).tabs({ fxFade: true, fxSpeed: 'slow' });
> >
> > });
> > }
> >
> > jQuery(document).ready(function(){
> > create_ui_tabs();
> > });
> >
> > // ]]>
> > </script>
> > __________________________
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jun 19, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Daiv Mowbray wrote:
> >
> > Hi thanx for the feedback, and well, I'm perplexed.
> >> I've applied the jquery as such;
> >>
> >
> >
> > ----------
> > Daiv Mowbray
> > daiv at daivmowbray.com
> > ----------
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > wp-hackers mailing list
> > wp-hackers at lists.automattic.com
> > http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> wp-hackers at lists.automattic.com
> http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
> 
> 
> End of wp-hackers Digest, Vol 53, Issue 48
> ******************************************

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