[wp-hackers] IRC Meetup

[Robert Deaton]

And here come the logs!

May 04 15:55:17 photomatt I've got a mini-agenda
May 04 15:55:20 photomatt to kick things off
May 04 15:55:21 chrisjdavis whoo hoo!
May 04 15:55:29 jonabad agendas! this is serious
May 04 15:55:45 photomatt whether the channel can stay on-topic for an hour 
remains to be seen
May 04 15:55:52 chrisjdavis heh
May 04 15:55:55 rboren Let the Dark Cabal come to order.
May 04 15:55:58 chrisjdavis yeah I have to see that one
May 04 15:56:09 * _nickname
(~ignis at ti400720a080-14498.bb.online.no<http://ti400720a080-14498.bb.online.no>)
has joined #wordpress
May 04 15:56:14 photomatt rboren: don't we still have seven minutes left?
May 04 15:56:14 FrankieShakes guys, if I've given write access to .htaccess, 
where in WP does it automatically modify the file? In v1.2 the .htaccess 
file would appear directly under the area where you set the permalink 
structure. Where in 1.5 does it show up?
May 04 15:56:33 photomatt FrankieShakes: it automatically writes it if it 
can
May 04 15:56:42 photomatt FrankieShakes: so you don't need to copy/paste 
anything
May 04 15:56:43 chrisjdavis FrankieShakes: it should be in $siteroot
May 04 15:56:50 chrisjdavis where ever that is
May 04 15:57:02 FrankieShakes photomatt: hmm... okay, cause I've given 
.htaccess write access, but it doesn't seem to be updating
May 04 15:57:06 masquerade when you visit the options->permalinks page and 
hit update it will definately try to write them, and I believe it tells you 
if it doesn't
May 04 15:57:41 chrisjdavis hmmm
May 04 15:57:41 * skippy looks around shiftily.
May 04 15:57:45 chrisjdavis going home
May 04 15:57:49 ColdForged cya!@
May 04 15:57:51 chrisjdavis I might be back on
May 04 15:57:54 skippy be well chrisjdavis 
May 04 15:57:57 chrisjdavis no promises
May 04 15:58:01 chrisjdavis skippy: I will try
May 04 15:58:02 * chrisjdavis has quit (Remote closed the connection)
May 04 15:58:44 skippy I could use a cool adult beverage.
May 04 15:58:49 * skippy looks around.
May 04 15:58:51 skeltoac oh, ditto.
May 04 15:58:51 skippy Damn.
May 04 15:59:01 skippy not a Guinness in sight.
May 04 15:59:10 FrankieShakes okay... I think it's writing now!
May 04 15:59:35 photomatt FrankieShakes: excellent
May 04 15:59:35 skippy photomatt: throw the agenda onto codex so we can all 
peek, and annotate as necessary
May 04 15:59:47 photomatt good idea
May 04 15:59:48 skippy collaboration++
May 04 15:59:55 ColdForged ohhh
May 04 16:00:01 FrankieShakes photomatt: I shouldn't need to restart apache 
after the change, right?
May 04 16:00:08 ColdForged no Frankie
May 04 16:00:24 FrankieShakes hmm... not working
May 04 16:00:44 skippy anything in your error log, FrankieShakes ?
May 04 16:00:45 * Firenze has quit (Nick collision from services.)
May 04 16:00:51 * _nickname is now known as Firenze
May 04 16:00:51 FrankieShakes I'm running PHP5... and when I load the 
php_info page, under "loaded modules" it shows mod_rewrite
May 04 16:01:02 FrankieShakes skippy: checking...
May 04 16:02:13 skippy photomatt: the column header "freshness" in the 
support forums is misleading. The bottom post isn't "2 hours fresh"...
May 04 16:02:40 masquerade skippy, it was fresh two hours ago
May 04 16:03:07 skippy yes, but we don't say it's got a freshness of two 
hours.
May 04 16:03:08 * jefte
(~jp at rrcs-24-227-116-130.se.biz.rr.com<http://rrcs-24-227-116-130.se.biz.rr.com>)
has joined #wordpress
May 04 16:03:09 _infobot Willkommen, bienvenue, welcome jefte, im Cabaret, 
au Cabaret, to Cabaret
May 04 16:03:20 FrankieShakes skippy: restarted apache... nothing obvious in 
the error log... this is the only thing that displayed:
May 04 16:03:28 Firenze anyone here running wp on powweb?
May 04 16:03:30 FrankieShakes Processing config directory: 
/private/etc/httpd/users/*.conf
May 04 16:03:31 FrankieShakes Processing config file: 
/private/etc/httpd/users/frank.conf
May 04 16:03:31 FrankieShakes [Wed May 4 17:00:28 2005] [warn] module 
mod_php5.c is already added, skipping
May 04 16:03:34 FrankieShakes [Wed May 4 17:00:28 2005] [notice] 
Apache/1.3.33 (Darwin) PHP/5.0.3 configured -- resuming normal operations
May 04 16:03:35 * photomatt has changed the topic to: WordPress IRC Meetup - 
http://codex.wordpress.org/IRC_Meetups || Channel being logged || Save 
support for forums
May 04 16:03:37 FrankieShakes [Wed May 4 17:00:28 2005] [notice] Accept 
mutex: flock (Default: flock)
May 04 16:03:45 HauntedUnix photomatt: Where's it logged to
May 04 16:03:47 Firenze friend of mine wants to host a blog there but 
doesn't know whether all features will work
May 04 16:03:58 * masquerade is logging, and i believe jonabad is also
May 04 16:03:59 photomatt FrankieShakes: We're getting started, could you 
take it to private messages or the forums?
May 04 16:04:08 * tanuki (~bgeiger@
dialup-4.247.170.7.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net<http://dialup-4.247.170.7.Dial1.Tampa1.Level3.net>)
has joined #wordpress
May 04 16:04:09 _infobot tanuki is a larger-than-life (but gradually 
deflating) geek, college student, navel gazer, and blogger: 
http://bgeiger.net/weblog/ and http://begeiger.blog.usf.edu/
May 04 16:04:10 HauntedUnix Mm'kay, sory :-)
May 04 16:04:16 FrankieShakes photomatt: sure thing... thanks for your help 
thus far... much appreciated!
May 04 16:04:22 FrankieShakes skippy: do you mind assisting in pm?
May 04 16:04:23 photomatt Okay the agenda is on the wiki page in the topic
May 04 16:04:23 masquerade photomatt, why not move the IRC meetup to another 
chan so support can continue here..
May 04 16:04:25 * tanuki_ has quit (Connection timed out)
May 04 16:04:32 skippy shouldn't WE take it somewhere private, since we post 
all over that #wordpress is for support ?
May 04 16:04:49 Firenze $def Firenze is an anonymous blogger. mwhahaha
May 04 16:04:49 _infobot Firenze is an anonymous blogger. mwhahaha
May 04 16:04:58 skippy FrankieShakes: I can try to help, but can't promise 
much.
May 04 16:05:04 photomatt Okay, maybe the role of #wordpress is a better 
first topic :)
May 04 16:05:17 photomatt That was more #4, scaling support
May 04 16:06:04 photomatt as a method for support, IRC is very hit/miss. 
great if someone is there who has time to help you, horrible if people are 
chatting and ignoring you
May 04 16:06:29 photomatt during an active conversation things can scroll 
off after less than a minute
May 04 16:06:51 photomatt Podz has complained numerous times of not getting 
any help here himself, that's why he didn't like IRC for a while
May 04 16:06:52 * ryanpc
(~ryanc at 168-103-148-210.tukw.qwest.net<http://168-103-148-210.tukw.qwest.net>)
has joined #wordpress
May 04 16:06:53 _infobot Willkommen, bienvenue, welcome ryanpc, im Cabaret, 
au Cabaret, to Cabaret
May 04 16:07:14 photomatt (and then everyone stopped talking)
May 04 16:07:28 skippy with respect to support:
May 04 16:07:39 skippy in the last month or so, I think #wordpress has 
really shaped up.
May 04 16:07:43 Podz it's an inherent fault of #irc
May 04 16:07:51 photomatt oh, hi Podz :)
May 04 16:07:54 Podz and I totally agree with what skippy just said :)
May 04 16:07:56 skippy I think enough people now have enough proficiency 
with 1.5 to offer helpful, useful comments.
May 04 16:07:58 Podz Hi Matt :)
May 04 16:08:02 * ColdForged nods
May 04 16:08:18 skippy when 1.5 first came out, we were all struggling to 
make sense of it for ourselves.
May 04 16:08:31 photomatt that makes sense
May 04 16:08:34 HauntedUnix Personally I believe IRC is a wonderful medium 
for support, however if you *ban* offtopic chatter here, the channel will 
die. I'd like to see the implementation of an in-house paid support, to say; 
fuel development, and greater emphasis on the use of the forums for support, 
however IRC should still be left as a strong-hold, as it is a realtime 
conversational mean.
May 04 16:08:40 * westi|wah is now known as westi
May 04 16:08:50 westi evening all
May 04 16:08:52 jefte not to mention the slew of 3rd party plugins and 
features we now have available...
May 04 16:08:52 skippy now we're in a pretty good "comfort zone" -- many 
known bugs are well identified; and lots of people are comfortabel int he 
code.
May 04 16:09:10 twistedraisin chuckg: there is the wordpress-pro mailing 
list
May 04 16:09:18 twistedraisin err HU, rather
May 04 16:09:18 chuckg Hmm?
May 04 16:09:19 photomatt does anyone here need support right now? since we 
already announced #wordpress as the channel for this week we can stay here 
and go to another channel next week
May 04 16:09:26 * presroi
(~tir at p54B0E46F.dip.t-dialin.net<http://p54B0E46F.dip.t-dialin.net>)
has joined #wordpress
May 04 16:09:28 presroi hi
May 04 16:09:53 HauntedUnix twistedraisin: Less as a mailing list, more as 
an organised, centralised system.
May 04 16:10:18 photomatt paid support of some sort has been a semi-common 
request
May 04 16:10:19 Podz If anyone does, tell them to PM me so it beeps here and 
I'll see what I can do. I'm fiddling with my sites right now
May 04 16:10:22 skippy I would like to think that actual moderators for 
#wordpress would help; but I don't know if they really would.
May 04 16:10:30 photomatt my hesinance is that free support with wither if 
we offer paid support
May 04 16:10:34 photomatt *hesitance
May 04 16:10:36 * ringmaster (~ringmaste at 146.145.52.102<http://146.145.52.102>) 
has joined #wordpress
May 04 16:10:37 _infobot ringmaster is Owen Winkler of 
asymptomatic.net/redalt.com <http://asymptomatic.net/redalt.com>, author of 
EzStatic, Exhibit, and BAStats plugins for WordPress.
May 04 16:10:57 HauntedUnix photomatt: The Gallery Project, although not 
quite parallel to Wordpress, offer both paid and free, and seem to get on 
with it just dandy.
May 04 16:11:12 photomatt HauntedUnix: I'll check out how they're doing that
May 04 16:11:14 twistedraisin photomatt: maybe some sort of wp-consulants 
site like guru or something? Thatway those that want to support wordpress, 
can.
May 04 16:11:15 * Clintology has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed 
out))
May 04 16:11:45 HauntedUnix photomatt: Would you like me to ask one of the 
Gallery contributors to pop in?
May 04 16:11:51 skippy I think paid support should be an independent 
operation; and not something run/sponsored by WordPress directly.
May 04 16:12:04 photomatt 
http://gallery.menalto.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=GalleryPaidSupport&file=index
May 04 16:12:07 photomatt that's the gallery page
May 04 16:12:07 masquerade skippy, that would be known as "professional 
consulting"
May 04 16:12:09 HauntedUnix skippy: I've been presented with that idea, 
however I still think if it were in house, it'd recieve a greater support.
May 04 16:12:10 * Clintology
(~Clint at nr30-216-196-141-153.fuse.net<http://nr30-216-196-141-153.fuse.net>)
has joined #wordpress
May 04 16:12:16 photomatt skippy: that's how it happens now, but it's hard 
for people to find it
May 04 16:12:23 westi i agree with skippy ... paid support could be 
something recommended much like the hosting page on wp.org <http://wp.org>
May 04 16:12:27 photomatt I would imagine it being somewhat of a marketplace 
hosted by WP
May 04 16:12:30 HauntedUnix skippy: Also there's then the guarantee for the 
money to be better plowed back into WP.
May 04 16:12:37 photomatt yes, like the hosting page somewhat
May 04 16:13:04 skippy yes, but it creates a dichotomy to our users. "Oh, I 
didn't PAY so my bug report will get less attention"...
May 04 16:13:08 westi maybe a prerequist of being listed on
wp.org<http://wp.org>would be that you pledge to donate something back
to wordpress from the moey
you make
May 04 16:13:13 skippy even if it's not true, that will be a perception.
May 04 16:13:31 photomatt skippy: but support != bug reports and fixing
May 04 16:13:38 HauntedUnix skippy: bug reports =! ..ah, nevermind
May 04 16:13:44 westi you should never have to pay to get bugs fixed .. 
support is about heling people install surely
May 04 16:13:50 HauntedUnix skippy: I meant less bug reporting, things like 
that, more.. advanced users who will fix specific problems, set up others 
blogs, et cetera.
May 04 16:14:33 skippy fair enough. Out of curiosity, how many support forum 
requests would be channeled to paid support, at a guess?
May 04 16:15:01 MCincubus probably the ones that are currently answered as 
"yeah, you could do that, but you'd have to write a plugin for it"
May 04 16:15:03 phenny MCincubus: 15:34Z <Admiral_Justin> tell MCincubus 
that I posted a workaround to the javascript issues with app/x+x to his post 
about the mime types
May 04 16:15:30 photomatt I would see people as starting with the paid 
support rather than going to the forums first
May 04 16:15:50 photomatt maybe Podz can speak to how he thinks the forums 
could react
May 04 16:15:54 jefte On the topic of support, I for one would not pay for 
support
May 04 16:16:24 * versuchsanstalt
(~burki at p5481D710.dip.t-dialin.net<http://p5481D710.dip.t-dialin.net>)
has joined #wordpress
May 04 16:16:24 _infobot versuchsanstalt is 
http://www.versuchsanstalt.org/wordpress/ (blogging about this & that & 
culture & the media. in german though. dreaming of a place in the web that's 
all about culture & collaboration.) & GNU/Linux audio
May 04 16:16:28 jefte and while I do use the forums - wish for a better 
system for oganizing the posts
May 04 16:16:45 shep i don't like the new tags at the top of the forums
May 04 16:16:45 HauntedUnix jefte: Say you were a new, inexperienced user, 
and you had real problems with getting things working, do you think you 
still wouldn't pay?
May 04 16:16:48 shep bt that's just me
May 04 16:16:48 * ryanpc has quit (Remote closed the connection)
May 04 16:17:02 shep i don't see why people would have to pay
May 04 16:17:05 skippy the other problem with paid support is that the folks 
who contribute for free have a real disincentive for continuing. (I'm 
specifically thinking of my own contributions to the codex)
May 04 16:17:11 masquerade many users would not pay for support, but the 
ones that would be willing to pay would get a guarantee of a support staff's 
time to help diagnose and fix the problem
May 04 16:17:12 jefte I think because of the nature of the product (free, 
open-source) I don't expect to pay, to get the product to run
May 04 16:17:17 shep the support forums and this channel give help in a very 
timely matter
May 04 16:17:29 Podz to support ? You have the very easy stuff and grateful 
people through to the "I want it MY way and I'll pay pennies". I have had a 
few of them nag me to death so I avoid them at all costs now. the tricky 
part is saying enough is enough and drawing the line at the start.
May 04 16:17:30 westi from what i have seen on the forums a lot of people 
are willing to pay - mainly for theming but also for support in general
May 04 16:17:54 photomatt jefte: I don't think the target audience would be 
anyone in this chat or on the hackers list
May 04 16:18:11 shep the people in the forums that are willing to pay are 
people who seem to have lost hope
May 04 16:18:11 photomatt jefte: it's people who need more hand-holding than 
the forums can provide
May 04 16:18:16 jefte and I don't think I'm alone in this feeling. Most 
people looking for cheap solutions typically don't want to be encumbered 
with trying to set it up. Lucky for me - Word Press was easy to install. I'm 
the weakest hacker on the list.
May 04 16:18:18 HauntedUnix Do you think it'd be unreasonable to ask for $20 
for a customisation of WP?
May 04 16:18:21 jonabad westi: like a wordpress extended warranty
May 04 16:18:30 shep sure those people can still pay someone for help, but 
we shouldn't make support a paying issue
May 04 16:18:38 shep i know i love to help people out
May 04 16:18:44 shep as rare is it may be
May 04 16:18:49 photomatt free support would NEVER be eliminated, the codex 
would never go away, etc
May 04 16:18:53 jefte photomatt: while I'm on the list, I use it as a way to 
keep a thumb on the wp pulse. I cannot code well - more often than not I am 
breaking code.
May 04 16:18:54 shep remember, i'm just comic relief in here
May 04 16:19:00 westi HauntedUnix: sounds reasonable for a custom theme to 
solve someones needs.. if not cheap really considering how many hours can go 
into theming
May 04 16:19:02 masquerade I think that if anything, we should avoid calling 
it "Paid Support" and do something along the lines of "Professional 
Consulting"
May 04 16:19:03 HauntedUnix I think a social contract could do with adding 
in, Matt.
May 04 16:19:11 Podz I think the main point about paying is to get people to 
search better. I still do tons of free install etc - as I'm sure others here 
do - but I /had/ to put the pay thing on my pages because it was getting 
very silly the amount of mail and IM's I was getting
May 04 16:19:15 shep that may work
May 04 16:19:22 shep professional consulting
May 04 16:19:22 skippy photomatt: it's not a matter of it going away. It's a 
matter of someone else making money from my effort to document something on 
the codex. That irks em.
May 04 16:19:24 MCincubus masquerade, agreed.
May 04 16:19:27 skippy s/em/me
May 04 16:19:35 skeltoac It could be as simple as adding a category on the 
forums: Help For Hire.
May 04 16:19:46 shep skippy: makes since
May 04 16:19:48 shep sense
May 04 16:19:48 jefte thats not a bad idea actually...
May 04 16:19:51 shep man i can't type
May 04 16:20:07 photomatt skippy: how would someone be profiting off your 
codex work any more than they're profiting off the work of devs on WP?
May 04 16:20:30 MCincubus and if the info is freely available, the user 
could just use it themselves
May 04 16:20:38 skippy photomatt: hey, if you guys don't care, I can't stop 
you. I'm voicing my opinion. One of 96, presently.
May 04 16:20:42 masquerade I think that if someone wants to be a paid 
consultant, then power to them, but it shouldn't be something endorsed by 
WordPress as much as regular support
May 04 16:20:59 westi photomatt: i think that would be if people are 
charging for providing info to users that is freely available cause the use 
can't be bothered to search properly
May 04 16:21:09 HauntedUnix I think iof we did offer support, we'd have to 
have some sort of *organisation* to it.
May 04 16:21:18 HauntedUnix If we just let anyone go at it, they could end 
up posing as a WP dev, and ripping people off.
May 04 16:21:22 skeltoac Too many users prefer to have it done for them and 
are willing to pay. Open the door for those people and you could multiply 
the WordPress user base.
May 04 16:21:30 photomatt HauntedUnix: that's a big concern too
May 04 16:21:30 Podz And if a "Paid Supporter" seeks help for a client ? You 
WILL have idiots doing that
May 04 16:21:31 shep the info is freely out there, but some people just get 
frustrated, or want other people to do all the work themselves
May 04 16:21:34 masquerade WordPress' support has grown to the point that 
the ones who are looking for quick fixes and such can find them easily on 
the codex. The people who need their hand held through every bit might be 
interested in consulting rather than "support"
May 04 16:21:44 shep and i guess if that's the case, a consiltant isn't a 
bad idea
May 04 16:21:48 shep consultant
May 04 16:22:01 photomatt all the information is out there to do anything, 
all the way down to the source code, I think for most people it's a matter 
of having the time to grok it
May 04 16:22:07 skeltoac Independent consulting is already a fact.
May 04 16:22:07 SteamedPenguin save support for forums?
May 04 16:22:10 HauntedUnix I'd like to see a system similar to Gallery, 
whilst keeping the individuality.
May 04 16:22:13 SteamedPenguin WTF is that?
May 04 16:22:14 HauntedUnix SteamedPenguin: During the meeting, I presume.
May 04 16:22:22 photomatt We have a mailing list of professional WP 
consultants, it hasn't had much traffic
May 04 16:22:32 SteamedPenguin ah
May 04 16:22:35 skeltoac I've never seen it advertised!
May 04 16:22:37 SteamedPenguin oops
May 04 16:22:38 jefte nore I
May 04 16:22:41 shep neither have i
May 04 16:22:45 shep i never knew about it
May 04 16:22:50 MCincubus Heh, I remember it being mentioned, in passing
May 04 16:22:50 jonabad I had to dig around to get into it
May 04 16:22:53 photomatt okay, well that's a first problem
May 04 16:22:56 skeltoac Right.
May 04 16:22:57 jefte hahahah clearly.
May 04 16:23:03 photomatt where should it go on the site?
May 04 16:23:08 shep and i'm betting that 98% of the people on the board 
(100% of newbs) don't know
May 04 16:23:15 skeltoac Probably as a sticky in the forums.
May 04 16:23:16 ringmaster WordPress SUPPORT: $50/ hour. Email me. (Now you 
have.)
May 04 16:23:19 westi photomatt: on the subject of grok'ing .. maybe the 
support page on wp.org <http://wp.org> should link to the codex... then 
people might search there first aswell as the forums before asking the same 
questions over and over
May 04 16:23:33 skeltoac YES
May 04 16:23:36 Firenze can someone please tell me, why a domain like 
blah.com <http://blah.com> is a 2 level domain? what's a first level then?
May 04 16:23:43 shep i also think there should be a clear link to this room
May 04 16:23:45 skippy Firenze: com is the first
May 04 16:24:01 shep there are a lot of people in here that give great help
May 04 16:24:07 skippy Is there some requirement for joining the WP Pro 
list? Can anybody join?
May 04 16:24:07 photomatt shep: I'm hesitant to drive newbies to IRC or any 
other ephemeral medium
May 04 16:24:11 skeltoac Firenze: com is called a Top Level Domain.
May 04 16:24:11 Firenze blah.com <http://blah.com> is second,
woot.blah.com<http://woot.blah.com>is 3rd
May 04 16:24:13 shep plus geeksmakemehot likes to play truth or dare
May 04 16:24:18 Firenze that's what's confusing me
May 04 16:24:20 photomatt IRC is unsearchable, not publicly archived, etc
May 04 16:24:24 shep true
May 04 16:24:25 jefte photomatt: Maybe you could list all mailing lists in 
the right column of the support page?
May 04 16:24:33 photomatt a question answered in the forums may help 10 
people instead of 1
May 04 16:24:41 ColdForged [17:22] photomatt: a question answered in the 
forums may help 10 people instead of 1 ++
May 04 16:24:49 masquerade jefte, while that might sound like a good idea, 
our Hackers list would be flooded with support questions in no time at all
May 04 16:24:52 photomatt jefte: except the mailing lists are expressly NOT 
for support
May 04 16:24:53 Firenze skeltoac :: yes, thanks you, but it was not what i 
was asking
May 04 16:24:56 photomatt except wp-testers, which is for nightlies
May 04 16:24:59 jonabad I think there ought to be a way to search both codex 
and forums
May 04 16:25:00 shep photomatt: but it should be clearly stated somewhere, 
that there is a IRC room if all other support fails
May 04 16:25:01 skeltoac Yes, I still get hits referred from my Blogger 
Importer posts on the forums.
May 04 16:25:09 jefte good points
May 04 16:25:24 photomatt also some insane number of searches are run on the 
forums per day
May 04 16:25:35 jefte so how do we make available a list of wp consultants 
for people to tap into and pay for hand-holding help?
May 04 16:25:37 * nosebleed|work has quit ("For every action, there's an 
equal but opposite excuse")
May 04 16:25:37 photomatt I think it was 5 figures or close to it
May 04 16:25:49 westi photomatt: do they produce good results though?
May 04 16:26:11 photomatt westi: no/yes
May 04 16:26:11 skeltoac I think a list of consultants is trouble. It 
implies endorsement and trust.
May 04 16:26:11 westi the same questions do seem to come up that can be 
answered by a simple targetted search
May 04 16:26:25 jonabad photomatt: i definitely search like 5 times for 1 
answer
May 04 16:26:35 photomatt how about a subpage of /about/ is added that links 
to the WP PRo list
May 04 16:26:39 jefte well the wp-consultants list is effectively this - but 
unendorsed?
May 04 16:26:43 photomatt I can call it "Professional Consultants"
May 04 16:26:57 SteamedPenguin besides, should it be wp.org <http://wp.org>'s 
mission to 'advertise' consultants? who gets on the list, who gets off?
May 04 16:27:09 photomatt and mention that the wp-pro list is essentially a 
marketplace to reach people interested in WP work
May 04 16:27:13 trevorturk photomatt, (knowing that you made bbpress) why 
not use punbb? i love it.
May 04 16:27:20 * westi would like a feed of activity on forum posts he has 
authored/ replied to .. is that possible?
May 04 16:27:43 masquerade westi, hack away at bbpress and about anything is 
possible
May 04 16:27:49 MCincubus well, it either has to be explicit endorsement, or 
explicit non-endorsement (and an open forum)
May 04 16:27:52 skippy photomatt: is the Pro list for solicitation of 
business?
May 04 16:27:55 photomatt trevorturk: when the forums started punbb used 
tables everywhere, was really hard to integrate with the design, and still 
doesn't support tags
May 04 16:27:58 ringmaster Any list of consultants is not a matter of 
endorsing anyone. It's about centralizing the list. Any display of such a 
list could clearly deny endorsement.
May 04 16:28:03 westi masquerade: i will... when i have the time!
May 04 16:28:07 skippy if so, that sounds like chaos: "Who wants to help 
me?!" "me me me!"
May 04 16:28:16 photomatt skippy: that's how markets work
May 04 16:28:26 skeltoac Yup.
May 04 16:28:32 photomatt that's also how the Six Apart pronet works
May 04 16:28:34 photomatt FYI
May 04 16:28:36 trevorturk photomatt, that's true - pubb could use some 
sweet wp-esqe theme feature!
May 04 16:28:49 jefte I can see it now, wp "consultants" barking out for 
customers in a digital marketplace.
May 04 16:28:49 SteamedPenguin ah yes
May 04 16:28:52 HauntedUnix Can I suggest, there's an ML of people who are 
*authorised* by either WP Foundation, or a third-party entity which are 
covering this. Each support ticket is sent to the ML, and each member from 
the ML is listed on the website?
May 04 16:28:57 * Falo
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May 04 16:28:57 _infobot Welcome, Falo; is this your first time here?
May 04 16:29:02 * mikelittle (~mike@
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May 04 16:29:13 jefte so now WP becomes an accreditation service?
May 04 16:29:13 * jtxd
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May 04 16:29:14 _infobot Welcome, jtxd; is this your first time here?
May 04 16:29:16 SteamedPenguin emulating six apart, always a good path
May 04 16:29:19 skeltoac If it's an open market we need, the forums might be 
a good place to host it. Just adding the Help For Hire category could do the 
trick.
May 04 16:29:19 photomatt HauntedUnix: authorising people is a VERY slippery 
slope
May 04 16:29:32 photomatt SteamedPenguin: learning from other's mistakes and 
successes is always good :)
May 04 16:29:41 ColdForged Could be broken down by specialties: design, CSS, 
template tags, plugins
May 04 16:29:44 SteamedPenguin photomatt: six apart is a company
May 04 16:29:44 photomatt skeltoac: trying to minimize the non-support 
traffic on the forums
May 04 16:29:45 HauntedUnix photomatt: I'd say people you trust, people who 
have exhibited themselves as able, and those who you know will work when 
they have to.. it's a bit favourist, but it's the best ay to go
May 04 16:29:51 skeltoac Of course, it would need the disclaimer at the top 
:)
May 04 16:29:58 shep if you do the consulting thing you def need to make 
sure that you don't claim any responsibility
May 04 16:30:11 photomatt HauntedUnix: that'd be very elitist, would exclude 
newcomers, and just because I like someone doesn't mean they're good to hire
May 04 16:30:25 shep you don't want people to get pissed because their 
"consultant" didn't do what they wanted
May 04 16:30:30 ringmaster Something like elance.com <http://elance.com> but 
focused at WP would be handy.
May 04 16:30:37 shep and yell at WP, when it wasn't WP's fault
May 04 16:30:40 photomatt ringmaster: sure, with rating and history, etc
May 04 16:30:43 shep a clear division must be there
May 04 16:30:47 HauntedUnix photomatt: I mean to avoid favourtism as much as 
possible, but to go with people who you're sure you can trust. Perhaps do... 
a test of some sort?
May 04 16:30:49 photomatt ringmaster: but that's Lots of Work
May 04 16:30:53 ringmaster too true.
May 04 16:30:54 jefte sounds like a whole new site to me - 
wp-consultants.com <http://wp-consultants.com>
May 04 16:30:56 SteamedPenguin photomatt: operating an open source project 
like operating a commercial company only beholden to its masters is 
different
May 04 16:30:57 masquerade I move that we table this discussion and move on 
to another topic, leave paid support for the next meeting
May 04 16:31:10 shep ok
May 04 16:31:15 jefte seconded.
May 04 16:31:21 shep all in favor\
May 04 16:31:22 skeltoac hear hear. sleep on it.
May 04 16:31:23 SteamedPenguin photomatt: on the other hand, there is no 
reason why there can't be acompany that's centered around offering WP 
services and integration
May 04 16:31:24 shep aye
May 04 16:31:25 ringmaster aye.
May 04 16:31:26 MCincubus aye
May 04 16:31:27 twistedraisin aye
May 04 16:31:29 HauntedUnix GOatse.
May 04 16:31:30 trevorturk is this about an alternative to the wp-pro 
mailing list?
May 04 16:31:30 photomatt alright
May 04 16:31:31 masquerade let everyone refine their thoughts and opinions 
and we'll get some better discussion
May 04 16:31:42 photomatt </consultants>
May 04 16:31:45 SteamedPenguin heh
May 04 16:31:48 photomatt <1.5.1>
May 04 16:31:50 ColdForged ba-dum-tish
May 04 16:32:10 photomatt Okay 1.5.1 needs to go out ASAP, what are the 
outstanding bugs?
May 04 16:32:11 ColdForged It was released yesterday, right?
May 04 16:32:11 twistedraisin heh, what major outstandings are there still 
before 1.5.1?
May 04 16:32:23 photomatt ColdForged: in a perfect world :)
May 04 16:32:23 ColdForged </joke>
May 04 16:32:25 MCincubus have there been any problems with the RSS and CURL 
stuff?
May 04 16:32:40 photomatt MCincubus: I checked in something that used curl 
if it was available, fopen if it wasn't
May 04 16:32:46 masquerade MCincubus, I believe that was fixed
May 04 16:32:54 twistedraisin not since 1.3a versions, iirc
May 04 16:32:55 MCincubus so no one has been having problems with it?
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May 04 16:33:11 rboren Assuming curl works out and the 304 fix works out, I 
think 1.5.1 is ready.
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May 04 16:33:34 masquerade I personally think 1.5.1 is ready also, but I'm 
double checking mosquito to see if there's anything else major
May 04 16:33:35 photomatt so the relevant bugs are
May 04 16:33:35 photomatt http://mosquito.wordpress.org/view.php?id=1275
May 04 16:33:38 * shep watches this discussion, since he knows nothing about 
coding and has no jokes about this topic
May 04 16:33:46 photomatt and http://mosquito.wordpress.org/view.php?id=1166
May 04 16:33:51 jefte I had a lot of trouble with /catagory permalink 
structure when I was wp newbie 1 month ago.
May 04 16:33:52 skeltoac I'm not running nightlies, but i had trouble with 
CURL on a GoDaddy-hosted account. Required a proxy.
May 04 16:34:02 shep what is CURL?
May 04 16:34:10 SteamedPenguin while not a major bug, WP 1.5 is still 
missing Atom feeds.
May 04 16:34:21 photomatt http://www.google.com/search?q=curl
May 04 16:34:26 twistedraisin atom is a pretty straightforward api
May 04 16:34:30 shep thanks matt
May 04 16:34:33 photomatt SteamedPenguin: Missing atom feeds??
May 04 16:34:33 MCincubus http://curl.haxx.se/docs/faq.shtml
May 04 16:34:38 skeltoac shep: It's a PHP library that lets you do HTTP 
stuff without fsockopen.
May 04 16:34:43 skeltoac (basically0
May 04 16:34:48 SteamedPenguin photomatt: yeah, comment Atom feeds.
May 04 16:34:49 photomatt SteamedPenguin: if you mean comment feeds, that's 
not going to make this release
May 04 16:35:07 SteamedPenguin photomatt: I gathered as much.
May 04 16:35:13 twistedraisin photomatt: is it on the roadmap at all?
May 04 16:35:19 photomatt I believe your bug is still open on that though?
May 04 16:35:19 westi photomatt: and shouldn't if 1.5.1 is "just bug fixes" 
;)
May 04 16:35:53 photomatt it's bug fixes and enhancements
May 04 16:35:58 masquerade As far as the RSS 304 bug, its been working fine 
here
May 04 16:36:11 masquerade with CVS checked out a few minutes ago
May 04 16:36:21 photomatt masquerade: does it return 304s when it's supposed 
to?
May 04 16:36:56 masquerade photomatt, Yep, and its not sending it when there 
are updates
May 04 16:37:14 photomatt can anyone else confirm? I'd like to close that 
bug
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May 04 16:37:24 photomatt I can't break it myself
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May 04 16:38:03 shep i don't know what you are talking about, so i can't 
confirm
May 04 16:38:26 photomatt I think that's it for 1.5.1, the only thing I may 
add is some documentation links on the plugin and theme pages
May 04 16:39:12 shep anything else on the list
May 04 16:39:33 rboren Did we address everything with Waldegger?
May 04 16:39:34 photomatt The new hosting page, any feedback?
May 04 16:39:38 MCincubus Should there be a grace period, before it is 
released? i.e. let the wp-hackers and wp-testers people pound it and try to 
break it for a few days?
May 04 16:39:51 shep i think its helpful
May 04 16:39:53 ringmaster Is it supposed to be sending back a last_modified 
header?
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May 04 16:40:06 _infobot Milords, Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome twood
May 04 16:40:12 shep some people aren't sure what hosts to use, and that can 
lead them in the right direction
May 04 16:40:21 skeltoac I'd like to know how much the new hosting page is 
increasing WP's cash flow.
May 04 16:40:26 shep and at least allow them to see what kind of specs they 
should be looking for
May 04 16:40:27 SteamedPenguin MCincubus: say seven days?
May 04 16:40:43 MCincubus SteamedPenguin, that would be plenty, methinks
May 04 16:40:48 photomatt MCincubus: 
http://comox.textdrive.com/pipermail/wp-testers/2005-April/000171.html
May 04 16:40:51 westi photomatt: hosting page is good,,, my only comment is 
it is unclear to me why powerweb is being highlighted - does it mean that 
wordpress recommends it above the others for ex?
May 04 16:41:04 shep westi: i had the same question
May 04 16:41:34 westi also should the list self randomize so that it appears 
in a different order each time so as not to show preference?
May 04 16:41:45 MCincubus Eek, I hope not.
May 04 16:41:52 MCincubus PowWeb wouldn't be my first choice.
May 04 16:42:04 photomatt w/r/t PowWeb, right now they have the best combo 
of a WP auto-install, phone support for WP, specs, and donating back to WP
May 04 16:42:23 photomatt the order doesn't seem to effect what people click 
on
May 04 16:42:30 photomatt Laughing Squid has the second most clicks on that 
page
May 04 16:42:38 Podz cute logo :)
May 04 16:42:42 jonabad great name
May 04 16:42:44 westi Podz: :)
May 04 16:42:51 photomatt even though they're at the end
May 04 16:42:59 shep i clicked it cause of name
May 04 16:43:05 photomatt so that tells me people are reading the whole 
page, which is what we want anyway
May 04 16:43:24 shep photomatt: why only those hosts?
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May 04 16:43:26 photomatt it's not one-size-fits-all
May 04 16:43:41 photomatt shep: a combo of big and small, but all high 
quality IMO
May 04 16:43:50 westi photomatt: thats cool then... i think you have to be 
careful not to accidentally show preference.. or imply preference when its 
not there ... thats all
May 04 16:43:53 photomatt rboren: it's still possible to load template files 
directly
May 04 16:44:00 shep ok, i was just wondering, cause i noticed a lot of 
people use Site5, and that's not on there
May 04 16:44:07 photomatt rboren: we can't .htaccess it because that'd also 
block CSS/images in that directory and wouldn't work on IIS anyway
May 04 16:44:08 MCincubus could randomize it, if you eventually add a lot of 
hosts
May 04 16:44:24 photomatt rboren: I wouldn't want to add crap to the top of 
every template file either
May 04 16:44:45 rboren Nor I.
May 04 16:44:46 photomatt MCincubus: there are plenty of hosting directories 
where people can see a lot of hosts, we want to highlight just a few
May 04 16:45:02 photomatt the page will never have more than 5, and will 
probably have fewer in the future
May 04 16:45:17 MCincubus Yeah, I think your disclaimer covers that
May 04 16:45:25 chye-fhut photomatt : that's what gallery is also doing.
May 04 16:45:37 chye-fhut i think.
May 04 16:45:45 photomatt rboren: as for filtering options/titles, that's 
somewhat academic. we could do it in a future release. I'd like to filter 
lower level users through KSES in the next release
May 04 16:46:33 rboren OK
May 04 16:46:45 MCincubus multi-user and open-contribution stuff would be 
pretty high up on my list.
May 04 16:46:51 * milk has quit
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May 04 16:46:58 shep well, is there anything else on the agenda
May 04 16:47:08 jonabad "new logo"
May 04 16:47:10 photomatt Yes, tags on the forums
May 04 16:47:18 shep i don't like them
May 04 16:47:19 photomatt how do you guys feel they could be done better?
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May 04 16:47:25 shep but they can be helpful to noobs
May 04 16:47:44 ringmaster *Confirm* on the feed 304 working properly.
May 04 16:47:52 masquerade While on the forums, I noticed someone earlier 
said the "freshness" is a bit confusing
May 04 16:48:02 MCincubus photomatt, a little sentence explaining them, so 
pople don't do "having" "a" "problem" "with" "my" "sidebar" as tags because 
they don't know what tags are for
May 04 16:48:31 masquerade I second that one
May 04 16:48:32 jonabad "theme" and "themes" as tags is... frustrating as is 
a "wordpress" tag
May 04 16:48:34 MCincubus maybe and e.g.
May 04 16:48:42 westi tags are good... but they clash a bit with the sub 
areas of the forums... maybe the areas could be built from the tags instead 
of by having specific defined areas?
May 04 16:49:02 MCincubus "For example, if your post is about a plugin that 
doesn't work with 1.5, you could put "1.5 plugin broken" in the tag section"
May 04 16:49:14 westi and also a way of creating removing tags from a post 
you added them to
May 04 16:49:26 photomatt MCincubus: would you be up for writing an 
explanation of tags for the Codex?
May 04 16:49:30 westi for when you create "a very silly tag by accident"
May 04 16:49:35 masquerade westi, building from tags would make the forums a 
whole mess of clutter and confusion since there's no way to control what 
users post as tags
May 04 16:49:59 MCincubus photomatt, sure. I'm not on wiki formatting, but 
Relle has offered to be my translator :-)
May 04 16:50:02 photomatt westi: deleting tags is on the agenda
May 04 16:50:19 photomatt you will be able to delete your own tags and mods 
will be able to delete other's tags
May 04 16:50:43 MCincubus how about different colored tags for "added by 
thread author" or "added by mods"
May 04 16:50:52 MCincubus Consumating does that
May 04 16:50:56 westi masquerade: i would counter that build hierarchies 
from tags would work as a good way of organising the info within the forum 
as it helps you bring together things on a similar subject easily makes the 
forum grow more organically
May 04 16:50:57 shep photomatt: wp t-shirts coming anytime?
May 04 16:51:12 westi t-shirts++
May 04 16:51:25 shep and are we letting anyone submit designs?
May 04 16:51:27 masquerade westi, but not everyone tags alike, and newbies 
won't immeidately get the concept of "tagging"
May 04 16:51:39 photomatt want to wait on new schwag for the logo refresh
May 04 16:51:49 ringmaster Autosuggesting tags could be helpful..
May 04 16:51:57 shep i like the logo
May 04 16:52:02 skeltoac When I have time to help/haunt the forums, I would 
like to see a single list of unanswered posts.
May 04 16:52:03 shep its simple, just like WP
May 04 16:52:04 photomatt ringmaster: it needs some AJAX loving
May 04 16:52:22 Podz skeltoac:: agreed
May 04 16:52:25 masquerade westi, maybe keeping the structure, but having 
the option to organize by tags in subcategories
May 04 16:52:26 westi ringmaster: ... tags based on the subject and existing 
tags would be good
May 04 16:52:27 photomatt shep: let's talk about the logo in a few minutes, 
stick to the forums for now
May 04 16:52:34 shep any i like my design for the t-shirt: 
http://www.mikeschepker.com/wptshirtsmall.jpg
May 04 16:52:40 shep will do photomatt
May 04 16:52:40 photomatt I think flickr's tag interface is pretty ideal
May 04 16:52:44 MCincubus yeah, I always scan for "1" when I go to the 
forums.
May 04 16:52:49 westi masquerade: sounds good... we need to harness the 
power of tags as an access methog fully
May 04 16:52:50 SteamedPenguin hmm
May 04 16:52:57 MCincubus What would help is an "resolved" or "unresolved" 
status.
May 04 16:53:06 SteamedPenguin building on technologies like AJAX could have 
some serious drawbacks
May 04 16:53:17 skeltoac MC: That too.
May 04 16:53:21 SteamedPenguin browsers like Opera and Konqueror aren't 
there yet in current iterations
May 04 16:53:21 photomatt MCincubus: I agree, I wonder if we could have a 
special tag for that
May 04 16:53:30 westi it would also be nice to have a quick link technique 
for linking to other forum posts by id
May 04 16:53:37 photomatt SteamedPenguin: Opera is there, Konq can use the 
HTML version that's there now
May 04 16:53:44 SteamedPenguin hmm
May 04 16:54:06 SteamedPenguin Opera 8 reportedly has problems with that new 
37 signals app.
May 04 16:54:10 ringmaster Dojo has great fallback mechanisms for using 
iframes if the browser doesn't support xmlhttprequest, too.
May 04 16:54:25 skeltoac Would it be to hard to add a boolean field to each 
thread? resolved=true/false
May 04 16:54:29 skeltoac with a checkbox
May 04 16:54:29 SteamedPenguin BaseCamp
May 04 16:54:35 photomatt ringmaster: how hard would it be to have a simple 
in-place tag adder in place of the page refresh we have now?
May 04 16:54:45 photomatt skeltoac: who would check that box?
May 04 16:54:47 westi ringmaster: oooh that sounds good.. i have a product 
in production thats been using iframes to do ajax alike stuff for a few 
years now
May 04 16:54:47 michel_v yo
May 04 16:54:56 ringmaster photomatt: very not hard.
May 04 16:54:56 masquerade skeltoac, that in itself would be easy, but who 
should have the right to mark threads as resolved or unresolved and who has 
the power to change them?
May 04 16:54:57 photomatt Hi michel_v
May 04 16:55:05 shep i have to go eat and get a hair cut. good day guys
May 04 16:55:12 shep keep me posted on logo
May 04 16:55:25 MCincubus photomatt, they should start "unresolved" and be 
changed by either the threat starter, or a mod
May 04 16:55:52 skeltoac I imagine anyone could. I don't imagine it would be 
a problem.
May 04 16:55:59 MCincubus probably not...
May 04 16:56:18 michel_v the thread starter, you surely mean
May 04 16:56:30 photomatt also some threads don't lend themselves to 
registration, eg "check out my site"
May 04 16:56:31 MCincubus michel_v, yeah, although sometimes both :-\
May 04 16:56:51 michel_v hmm
May 04 16:56:54 MCincubus photomatt, those are in a specific section, 
though, right?
May 04 16:56:54 masquerade skeltoac, I know a place that tried that on their 
forums once, and they had a lot of problems with people who reply with 
suggestions marking the thread as resolved although the poster still didn't 
understand the post helping out
May 04 16:57:01 photomatt not registration, I meant resolution
May 04 16:57:15 michel_v generally, in most support forums, the thread 
starter is responsible for editing the thread's title with some string like 
[resolved]
May 04 16:57:19 MCincubus like "Your WordPress" isn't support.
May 04 16:57:30 ringmaster "Yes, your site looks good. - Resolved."
May 04 16:57:35 photomatt ha!
May 04 16:57:44 skeltoac A lot of people never return to acknowledge 
resolution. It would be quite a burden on moderators.
May 04 16:57:55 westi no .. "Your site doesn't look good - Resolved"
May 04 16:57:56 photomatt ringmaster: does "not hard" mean 30 minutes? a 
day? a million dollars?
May 04 16:57:57 Podz I would like Your Wordpress not to figure in the most 
recent - would remove a lot of clutter
May 04 16:58:00 MCincubus so, it could be open to the public, via a tag
May 04 16:58:06 photomatt skeltoac: another good point
May 04 16:58:12 skeltoac Podz: I second.
May 04 16:58:20 michel_v I wish "Your Wordpress" threads were absent from 
the recent threads list
May 04 16:58:28 photomatt Podz: perhaps it should be removed altogether
May 04 16:58:32 MCincubus seconded, michel_v 
May 04 16:58:43 photomatt that might be better for an external forum
May 04 16:58:45 michel_v oh yeah, beat to thepunch by podz
May 04 16:58:49 photomatt not /support/
May 04 16:58:52 westi Your Wordpress should be a seperate forum from support 
if it exists at all
May 04 16:58:57 Podz no .... but just hidden. All it takes is once person to 
blitz that forum and the front page is full of bumps
May 04 16:59:01 michel_v I'm mildly drunk :/
May 04 16:59:39 ringmaster photomatt: It's basically a matter of adding the 
Dojo include, creating a javascript array to pass in the input ID and the 
php file that processes the request, and then having the php file return 
javascript that will add the new item to the lag list.
May 04 16:59:51 Podz whichever - would free up the most recent and that has 
to be good
May 04 17:00:17 ringmaster So, essentiall about 2 hours to perfection, and a 
million dollars. I take checks.
May 04 17:00:43 MCincubus if we make all /support/ threads actually be 
support, we can auto-add an "unresolved" tag to each new thread.
May 04 17:00:47 skeltoac A zero-reply list would still be a great addition, 
making helping easier.
May 04 17:01:05 MCincubus that could be a dynamic tag...
May 04 17:01:10 photomatt skeltoac: zero-reply, one-reply, and needing tags 
are coming
May 04 17:01:13 MCincubus when the first reply comes, the "noresponse" goes 
away
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May 04 17:02:04 ringmaster A default checklist of tags might be handy for 
classifying support issues directly.
May 04 17:02:23 skeltoac MC, not bad. There is already a function for 
bolding the titles of unanswered posts.
May 04 17:02:34 photomatt Podz: I'll look at removing your WP from recent 
later tdoay
May 04 17:02:48 Podz photomatt:: :)
May 04 17:02:57 skeltoac also :)
May 04 17:03:08 photomatt ringmaster: since I'm going to be working on 
bbPress anyway, do you want to coordinate on the AJAX tag part?
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May 04 17:05:06 ringmaster photomatt: I'd love to, but I'm already stretched 
a little thin, and I know nothing about bbPress internals already.
May 04 17:06:47 jonabad photomatt: we're coming up on the end of the hour
May 04 17:07:00 jonabad next topic?
May 04 17:07:31 photomatt alright I'll try it out, I'll ping you if I run 
into anything too weird
May 04 17:07:44 ringmaster photomatt: Definitely.
May 04 17:07:52 skeltoac I have a quick announcement for those in the know: 
BOTD 0.5 is online and very slick. I'd especially like to see if it works as 
expected on photomatt.net <http://photomatt.net>.
May 04 17:07:55 MCincubus We should start a Codex page for these meetups, 
where people can suggest topics ahead of time.
May 04 17:08:13 masquerade MCincubus, photomatt did that earlier
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May 04 17:08:55 MCincubus Hot... found it.
May 04 17:10:35 photomatt http://codex.wordpress.org/IRC_Meetups
May 04 17:10:46 photomatt okay all that's left is the "new logo"
May 04 17:10:46 traveller hm.....the same get_sidebar(); call produces two 
different results
May 04 17:10:53 photomatt just some background
May 04 17:11:20 photomatt the main problem with the current logo is it 
doesn't really have a "mark" that translates well onto different mediums and 
sizes
May 04 17:11:48 traveller i modified the sidebar.php to display my profile, 
in the main page it does so, but if click on another link it doesn't display 
the profiles, just a blank section with heading
May 04 17:11:52 MCincubus Right, like six aparts "dots"
May 04 17:11:56 photomatt I like the WP logo typography though
May 04 17:12:19 jonabad so like a "WP" mark?
May 04 17:12:27 photomatt exactly
May 04 17:12:29 ringmaster Yes, such a 16x16 or otherwise square-shaped logo 
would be very useful.
May 04 17:12:41 photomatt more like a refinement of the current logo rather 
than doing something completely different
May 04 17:12:48 jonabad because I also like the typographic look to it, it 
has gravitas
May 04 17:12:56 * dantekgeek has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
May 04 17:12:57 photomatt agreed
May 04 17:13:02 MCincubus So, "WP" in the blue/black
May 04 17:13:11 photomatt so I've been working with a designer on some new 
things
May 04 17:13:29 photomatt it's still black and white because that's how logo 
work is done, so colors don't change your perception of the mark
May 04 17:13:51 skeltoac I envision a simplified image of an old drum litho 
press with WP rolling out
May 04 17:14:18 photomatt we've gone through about five iterations, would 
you guys like a peek and to give some feedback?
May 04 17:14:25 skeltoac YES!
May 04 17:14:27 jonabad sock it to me
May 04 17:14:28 MCincubus absolutely
May 04 17:14:33 photomatt okay
May 04 17:14:37 photomatt one note beforehand
May 04 17:14:39 ringmaster No. Oh, wait... yes!
May 04 17:14:50 photomatt there is going to be X percentage of people that 
will dislike ANY change
May 04 17:15:06 skeltoac granted
May 04 17:15:10 photomatt for example, the feedback
wired.com<http://wired.com>got on their CSS redesign got was
overwhelmingly negative
May 04 17:15:29 photomatt even though most people would agree (and newcomers 
much prefered) the new look is better
May 04 17:15:39 MCincubus people are more willing to express negative 
feedback..
May 04 17:15:49 photomatt so in dealing with anything you have a lot of 
experience with that may be changing, keep an open mind :)
May 04 17:16:14 photomatt and form your opinion before coming back to the 
channel to see what other people say
May 04 17:16:43 jonabad less suspense!
May 04 17:16:44 masquerade in short, don't be influenced by what others 
think
May 04 17:16:49 * skeltoac falls of the end of his chair
May 04 17:17:02 skeltoac Where's the link?
May 04 17:17:10 photomatt okay let me upload
May 04 17:17:10 jonabad hasn't happened yet
May 04 17:17:28 chye-fhut new variation of WP logo?
May 04 17:17:31 * chye-fhut scrolls up.
May 04 17:17:49 * NiallKennedy has quit (Remote closed the connection)
May 04 17:17:51 photomatt BTW, these are variations, none of these are final 
yet
May 04 17:17:53 photomatt http://photomatt.net/temp/
May 04 17:18:25 SteamedPenguin interesting
May 04 17:18:38 SteamedPenguin it is more colorscheme neutral
May 04 17:18:49 jonabad these should have letters or something to identify 
which one we're talking about
May 04 17:18:57 Podz looks like the VW logo . ...
May 04 17:19:02 photomatt color will be added later, right now it's just 
working on the shape
May 04 17:19:06 photomatt font, etc
May 04 17:19:07 ringmaster Podz: That's what I was thinking.
May 04 17:19:10 mikelittle Of the two. 4.01 keeping the singel word works 
better for me.
May 04 17:19:25 neuro` re
May 04 17:19:27 masquerade I like 4.01, for the same reason as mikelittle 
May 04 17:19:30 jonabad 4.01 #1 for me with the capitalized W and P
May 04 17:19:52 jonabad the w in the circle, not so much a fan of
May 04 17:19:57 MCincubus It's "WordPress," not "Word Press", so splitting 
it up will kill that distinction.
May 04 17:20:12 SteamedPenguin MCincubus: aye aye
May 04 17:20:27 MCincubus Best of the bunch... 4.01, top
May 04 17:20:27 mikelittle I'm not sure about the camel case. I always type 
it wrongly. Maybe its time to drop it. Meaning the lower version on 4.01 
May 04 17:20:29 masquerade my only suggestion might be to make the W and P 
slightly larger
May 04 17:20:44 chye-fhut i think so too, MCincubus 
May 04 17:21:05 masquerade just a tad larger, not much, but a tad larger 
than 4.01 top
May 04 17:21:16 MCincubus I might go for a more daring shape than a perfect 
circle on the "W" logo
May 04 17:21:35 westi photomatt: i do't like it with the W in the middle .. 
it doesn't work for me .. the 4.01 one looks gooed though
May 04 17:21:50 photomatt or separate the words?
May 04 17:22:05 westi ok it's getting late here... time for bed.. see you 
all again soon
May 04 17:22:55 * westi is now known as westi|gone
May 04 17:23:17 SteamedPenguin nah
May 04 17:23:23 SteamedPenguin wordpress should be one word
May 04 17:23:23 MCincubus I say "WordPress"
May 04 17:23:26 Podz How does it look 32*32 or smaller ? For footers and 
such ?
May 04 17:23:32 mikelittle A thought, if you separate the words would that 
make it less able to be trademarked. It becomes an ordinary english phrase.
May 04 17:23:40 Podz MCincubus:: agreed
May 04 17:23:44 MCincubus mikelittle, point
May 04 17:23:51 SteamedPenguin I like wordpress 
May 04 17:23:55 MCincubus or rather, "WORDPRESS" but with "smallcaps"
May 04 17:24:01 photomatt Podz: the circle W scales well to different sizes
May 04 17:24:02 SteamedPenguin camel casing it has no real value IMHO
May 04 17:24:11 photomatt I also think it would look nice on 
hats/shirts/thongs/etc
May 04 17:24:19 masquerade hehe, thongs
May 04 17:24:22 Podz thongs ....
May 04 17:24:25 masquerade always found that funny
May 04 17:24:38 photomatt if you look at the current thong, I had to break 
up Word/Press on separate lines
May 04 17:24:41 Podz heh .. I'd have to have MT on mine then :)
May 04 17:25:15 skeltoac Here's what I meant about the litho drum: 
http://www.skeltoac.com/wp-skeltoac.jpg
May 04 17:25:24 * ringo999 has quit (Connection timed out)
May 04 17:25:51 skeltoac Except I hurriedly did it upside-down.
May 04 17:26:07 * geeksmakemeZZZ yawns
May 04 17:26:09 phenny geeksmakemeZZZ: 05:26Z <BigJibby> ask geeksmakemeZZZ 
what her techno rank is?
May 04 17:26:21 MCincubus Hm... I like the idea.
May 04 17:26:50 SteamedPenguin not sure what the litho drum accomplishes
May 04 17:26:53 masquerade I think it'd be neat to have some sort of "press" 
above the words or something, but don't listen to me, I suck at artsy stuff
May 04 17:26:57 skeltoac That's the kind of physical object WordPress makes 
me think of.
May 04 17:27:31 MCincubus the problem with that is that is' not a 
complicated 3-d logo
May 04 17:27:32 geeksmakemeZZZ phenny, tell BigJibby
geeksmakemehot.com<http://geeksmakemehot.com>Technorati Rank: 2,991
May 04 17:27:34 phenny geeksmakemeZZZ: I'll pass that on for you when 
bigjibby is around.
May 04 17:27:38 photomatt alright, thanks for the feedback everybody :)
May 04 17:27:39 geeksmakemeZZZ thanks phenny
May 04 17:27:41 phenny Why, don't mention it.
May 04 17:27:41 mikelittle To make it really work, you would need to add 
perspective to the 'wordpress' giving it an italic slope in a flat b/w 
rendition
May 04 17:27:43 * geeksmakemeZZZ is now known as geeksmakemehot
May 04 17:28:03 skeltoac mikelittle: My PaintShop demo just expired or I 
would have :(
May 04 17:28:21 mikelittle skeltoac: :-)
May 04 17:28:54 * jonabad
(~jonabad at ppp-70-244-48-245.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net<http://ppp-70-244-48-245.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net>)
has left #wordpress
May 04 17:29:34 masquerade so, does this conclude the IRC meetup?
May 04 17:30:07 photomatt BANG
May 04 17:30:09 MCincubus Do we have any other PRESSING business?
May 04 17:30:19 * skeltoac slaps MCincubus around a bit with a large trout
May 04 17:30:24 photomatt speak now or hold your peace for a week
May 04 17:30:27 MCincubus Oof
May 04 17:30:55 MCincubus photomatt, cool to add ideas to the Codex page for 
next time?
May 04 17:31:17 SteamedPenguin photomatt: so 1.5.1 in a week-ish?
May 04 17:31:47 photomatt SteamedPenguin: probably much sooner
May 04 17:31:54 photomatt </meetup>
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