[wp-forums] This one is for Podz, because he asked.

Tue Aug 9 01:36:40 GMT 2005

TechGnome wrote:
> The first suggestion is to dump bbPress. I know it's Matt's little pet 
> project, but in my opinion it's not ready for prime time. I honestly 
> don't think it will be able to keep up with the expansion of the forums. 
> I sometimes feel like Matt cares more about the spit & polish shine than 
> the inner workings. The best analogy I can think of is a Porche 911 
> shell on a Yugo chassis and engine. Looks nice, but that's about it. We 
> need to get a "real" board system that has stood the test of time and 
> can take it. (BTW: Not that I'm suggesting that vBulletin be used, but 
> I've seen it handle far heaver sites than WP-F and much faster too.)

Can you elaborate on what specific things (aside from those listed 
below) using a new forum software will provide?  The WordPress support 
forums are one of the most amazingly on-topic forums I've ever seen. 
There's very little off-topic banter; there's remarkably little 
trolling.  The discussions are easy to scan / parse because there's no 
multi-line signature images with blinking stars and post counts.

Are you willing to help write an export module, to preserve all the 
existing bbPress content, should a new package be used?

> Second thing. Dump that infernal style.... People constantly bitch about 
> blogs that only use up a portion of the screen.... and then we have this 
> in the forums. Let's free up some of that real estate and use it.

Styles are styles.  Don't like it?  Use a local stylesheet to override 
it.  I don't like the style either, but I don't care enough about what 
it looks like to ultimately do anything.

> Change the support link. I think people don't look in the Codex because 
> it's too easy to get to the forums. Make the Support link go to the 
> Codex, from there they can get to the forums.  If we're about empowering 
> people to help themselves, let's shove them in the right direction. Even 
> if the Support link doesn't go right to the Codex, at least have a page 
> that lists the Codex, along with links to some of the common problem 
> areas of WP (themes, template tags, and the like).

I disagree.  Support is different from documentation.  We need to make 
sure we facilitate both.

I've previously suggested that first time visitors to the forum be 
presented solely with a search box.  After searching, a cookie be stored 
on their system to allow them to directly access the forums on 
subsequent visits.  I still think this is a good idea.

> Add a last posted date to the search results. Nothing is more 
> frustrating to actually do a search for something only to find out the 
> thread is 2 years old. I had that happen to me. More than once. It 
> doesn't take much to include it as part of the results.

This has been requested, and I think it's in the works.

> A more advanced search. Allow the ability to selectively search certain 
> areas exclusively or in combination. I want to search for "XYZ" gimmie 
> the first 5 items from the codex, and the first 15 items form the 
> forums. Currently, if what you are looking for isn't in the first 5 any 
> where, you're screwed as there's no way to go Next 5, Next 5, Next 
> 5....etc.

Excellent ideas!

> Speaking of Next, Next, Next....nothing is more annoying than having to 
> click Next Page> 5 times just to get to the end of the thread (or the 
> middle were you left off) - it would be nice to have better pagination 
> both in the forum threads and in the search results.

Hasn't the pagination recently been revamped?

> Previously some one (I think it was podz) stated that it (the forums) 
> was no one's child. That needs to change. Some one has got to care and 
> take charge. It just isn't me. There needs to be a clear list of who the 
> moderators are and what they can do for you, and how to contact them if 
> necessary.

I am a moderator.  Podz, Matt and Ryan are moderators.

Moderators can:
* delete individual posts
* delete whole threads
* lock threads
* sticky threads

I don't think we can move threads from one category to another.  That 
might be a handy function.

I only weild my moderator powers to:
* remove obvious spam / PR boosting attempts
* remove duplicate posts
* remove egregious personal attacks

> Subscriptions -- despite what Matt thinks, subscriptions are a good 
> thing. It allows people to keep better track of the threads they 
> participate in or start.

I know first hand what a nightmare it can be to support email based 
subscription mechanisms.  I get several support emails every week for my 
subscribe2 plugin complaining that messages are never delivered.  In a 
great many cases, the recipient has flagged the messages as spam.  There 
are far better things for bbPress developers and volunteers to spend 
their time on than replying to "I never got an email update!" questions.

I know it's uncomfortable for some people to learn new tricks, but I 
think RSS is a _vastly_ superior way to track threads in which you 
participate.

Here's an article I wrote highlighting the benefits of syndication:
http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/08/19/1420241
Feel free to share that (or others) with people who want email-based 
subscriptions.

And if you _really really_ want email subscriptions, you can use 
something like Bloglet (http://www.bloglet.com/) to pump a feed to email.

> I'd also like to see a link to "View posts with no replies". I don't 
> think I need to explain that one.

Yes, this has been asked for before, too.  I'm not sure what the status 
is, but it's something I would use.

> Now, here's why I don't think anything is going to some of it. WP-F uses 
> bbPress exclusively. I don't think any amount of pushing from others is 
> going to change that. Same with the theme/style of the forums. And all 
> of the other suggestions are fundamental changes that would need to be 
> made to bbPress in order to work. And they are just not going to happen.

bbPress nicely fits into the WordPress ecosystem.  A _lot_ of people 
want forums on the sites on which their blogs reside.  Using bbPress 
alongside WordPress allows these people to have a single user table in 
their database.  No other forum software reasonably supports that.

We're also working to integrate Codex logins with the bbPress user 
table, by way of a MediaWiki plugin.  This will provide a single sign on 
to _all_ wordpress.org services: forum, codex, trac, and anything else 
that comes down the line.

To switch to a new software now would require us to re-invent a lot of 
stuff we're well on our way to solving.

bbPress is now more than just Matt, and development has been regularly 
happening.  I think you'll find the development team extremely open to 
suggestions that demonstrably improve the core mission of the forums, 
which is to provide support.

For example, I suggested a Codex quick-link syntax, so that Codex links 
can be quickly supplied, like [[The_Loop]].  It took a little while, but 
it got integrated, and it's a HUGE help.

Most of the functional suggesitons you made above are good suggestions, 
and I've no doubt that they will see some action in due time.  But just 
like the answers on the forums, the development is being done by 
volunteers as their schedules allow.  Patience is encouraged!

-- 
skippy at skippy.net | http://skippy.net/

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