[wp-design] Checkbox styling

Fri Nov 18 14:00:08 GMT 2005

Khaled, you're styling your form elements with images; right? :)

Anyway. Let's finish the other things before we get into this gain.

On 11/18/05, khaled Abou Alfa <brokenkode at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I've got to say I'm with Joen on this one as well. What can I say the
> wirey bastard has me beat in that he can (and has) talked the talk. Although
> I can see where Matt is coming from, trying to get it one step ahead of
> everything else, I've got to say that it's more important to make WP more
> solid from every aspect first before trying and enhancing it in this sort of
> way. While cool to look at I don't think it'll really enhance my use of the
> program, and at worse it will render it a bit less fun/frustrating for the
> lesser communter literate.
>
> One thing I'd like to talk about is the size of the fonts and whatnot that
> the current frozen set is going for. This could be in the options but I
> think we should keep the text and links size as we've displayed them in the
> actual mock up and then have an option to increase everything. That's
> definitely an option I think we should be considering because people with
> good eye sight shouldn't be subjected to their dad's IE just because their
> dad uses IE.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> On 11/18/05, Joen Asmussen <joen at noscope.com> wrote:
> >
> > Well well well.
> >
> > There's the issue of Jakob Nielsen being right, and the issue of actual
> > usability. The first one is quickly done, so let's do that:
> >
> > Useit.com <http://Useit.com> is no great example of Jakobs preachings,
> > and this is certainly not helping him. I'm not going to discuss
> > useit.com <http://useit.com>, for that same reason. But I do want to
> > discuss the contents, because Jakob is not "either right or wrong": he's
> > shelling out advice, nothing more.
> >
> > In other wordsm JN doesn't say "stick to plain ui widgets or die"... he
> > says "if you stick to plain UI widgets, you'll have this and that benefit,
> > if you don't, be aware that it has the following problems... etc. etc.". All
> > based on research mind you. So let's steer the discussion away from JN, if
> > we can.
> >
> > Now, on topic. Pros and cons of using non-standard UI widgets:
> >
> > *Pros
> >
> > * *We can possibly get a more consistent feel with the rest of the
> > design. This is not a given, it's a possibility.
> >
> > *Cons*
> >
> > * We lose web AND operating system consistency.
> > People learn MacOSX and Windows, and they learn how a push button looks
> > and behaves. Same for scrollbars, checkboxes, radio buttons and so on.
> > If we style these, even just a tiny bit, they have to learn them anew.
> > On the other hand, if we choose NOT to style them, they will KNOW what
> > they do, and what their exact behaviour is, without having to learn a thing.
> > This lets them focus on Wordpress, and not cocky designers.
> >
> > To quote JN: "The more users' expectations prove right, the more they
> > will feel in control of the system and the more they will like it. And the
> > more the system breaks users' expectations, the more they will feel
> > insecure. Oops, maybe if I let go of this apple, it will turn into a tomato
> > and jump a mile into the sky."
> >
> > * In my experience, which is 7 years now, I've had a single and painful
> > revelation: design on the web means much less than I want it to, as a
> > designer. Google. Google's copycats. Enough said.
> >
> > * Michael, the web is not a computer game. In computer games it is the
> > norm to customize all interface assets, a fact that I will not challenge:
> > the audience for a violent game is different from the audience of Wordpress.
> > I mean no offense, I'm trying to be funny in a contextual sort of way.
> >
> > * It would be ironic for Wordpress to promote web standards, when they
> > would merely be treated like bullshit bingo. Web standards also encompass
> > web DESIGN standards. Is anyone here going to argue that standard UI widgets
> > are not web standards? I'd have a hard time not laughing if we wrote "Web
> > standards compliant", and still styled our widgets.
> >
> >
> > In my truthfully honest opinion, styling checkboxes, push buttons,
> > scrollbars, dropdown box etc. is an excrutiatingly bad decision, and I can't
> > spend more time warning you people now :)
> >
> > I hope you don't think i'm some kind of old blue links ogre... I'm
> > really trying to do this for the best of Wordpress.
> >
> > Joen
> >
> >
> > Michael Heilemann wrote:
> >
> > Alright, that's it. I'm going to challenge you both on this and try it
> > out. I understand where the idea is coming from, but I really think it's
> > one of those rulse that can be bent when done properly.
> >
> > And I've said this before, but I have to say it again: Have you SEEN
> > Jakob's site? And he's preaching usability?! I just don't understand how he
> > ever became the high king of usability when he doesn't practice what he
> > preaches.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/18/05, Chris Davis <chrisdmitri at gmail.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > And I of course agree with Joen about this.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > wp-design mailing list
> > > wp-design at lists.automattic.com
> > > http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-design
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Aloha,
> > Michael Heilemann
> > http://binarybonsai.com
> >
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--
Aloha,
Michael Heilemann
http://binarybonsai.com
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