[wp-hackers] The problem with Contributions and This Thread

Fri Dec 31 00:27:05 UTC 2010

Will,
  I didn't think you were big dicking, or anything like that. The only 
two people guilty of that on this thread were Nacin and Jacob, I 
personally don't care who thinks they've earned the right to.. in my 
book no one has earned the right to be a dick, ever.

I understand Nacin and the rest of the core teams frustrations, 3.1 is 
behind, it's making them and us look bad, and committing bugs that are 
low priority, non show stoppers during an RC is plain silly.

Trusted users don't need a badge, trust is earned, I'm just curious why 
someone like Jacob is not on the trusted list, if he has indeed made as 
many contributions as he says he has.

The point Jacob is trying to make, is that if he's contributing, his 
work shouldn't be diminished to "we don't have time for your low 
priority crap".. which is the attitude that seems to have been emanating 
from his emails.

You can't ask the community for help, and then make fun of them for 
contributing to something you're not interested in, or were expecting 
help from.  If the ticket is open, and someone submits a patch, it 
shouldn't go ignored, either the ticket should be closed, or be put in 
the attic.

Again, I'm not saying anyone here is the only one at fault, 
unfortunately the pressure of a release, combined with delays, is 
putting everyone on edge.

I'm not saying we all need to sing kumbaya, just that we need to realize 
egos are getting in the way of productivity, and then move on with it.

All I'm proposing is that we address this issue AFTER 3.1 final is out, 
let the core team enjoy the holidays a bit, ring in the new year... and 
as I said in my first email to this thread, let's all thank the core 
team, and the contributors, even if their patches didn't make it into 
core yet.. their work is not going un noticed, even if it may look like 
it, during time crunches like this.

Man.. I sound like a hippy don't I? :)

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 	William Davis <mailto:will.davis at gmail.com>
> December 30, 2010 6:11 PM
>
>
> Vid,
> I should clarify, I'm not on the core team (not even close), and I'd 
> like to apologize for my remark about managing a few projects — that 
> sort of "big dicking" each other won't get us anywhere, you're right. 
> Oftentimes it's used because the writer doesn't have anything useful 
> to say or because he/she is lazy. I used it because I'm lazy (I hope), 
> so let me explain.
>
> With my (relatively minor) experience with projects, one of the best 
> ways to control the quality of projects is to limit points of control. 
> This isn't to say that any one person isn't worthy of commit access, 
> but a dozen of the world's best minds together there are going to be 
> communication (and, yes, ego) problems. Good projects have become 
> bloated and quality has diminished because points of control weren't 
> limited (see: FF).
>
> Even the smallest bugs fixes and features can can lead to problems in 
> the future if they aren't patched/built with foresight. Some might 
> call having core developers commit bugs micromanagement or 
> obsessiveness. I call it being thorough.
>
> 'Trusted users' might not earn an actual badge — any user can help by 
> applying a patch, testing it, reporting errors or coding problems.
>
> I can't speak for the core team, but I would imagine reading the diff 
> for a minor bug takes only a few minutes, so I don't see that part of 
> the workflow to be a blocker. If it takes more time to read it's 
> probably not the kind of patch that should be applied without thought.
>
> Will
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> wp-hackers mailing list
> wp-hackers at lists.automattic.com
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 	Vid Luther <mailto:vid at zippykid.com>
> December 30, 2010 5:35 PM
>
>
> I'm all for this, how do we establish these trusted users? or is the 
> core team not interested in that at all?
>
> Whining doesn't work, and calling someone a whiner doesn't work 
> either, I think over all we'd all like to find a solution to this, 
> instead of a "we'll acknowledge your patch whenever we feel like".. or 
> "big dicking" each other, as was witnessed by Nacin and Jacob.. it 
> makes everyone look childish.
>
> This thread has obviously hit a nerve and ego, just find a solution 
> and respect each other, and move on with it.
>
> Having commit privileges doesn't make you better than anyone else on 
> this list nor does the # of patches, or the number of hours you 
> worked, no one should be taking the ability to commit to an open 
> source project as a sign of their superiority, or inferiority.
>
> None of the features in 3.1 cure cancer, save lives, or bring us world 
> peace.. nor do they promise to do.. just relax.
>
> 3.1 is late, let's test it out, get it out the door, and then perhaps 
> we can push the low hanging fruit into 3.1.x?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 	William P. Davis <mailto:will.davis at gmail.com>
> December 30, 2010 5:23 PM
>
>
> Having managed a project or two, I can say that it's often the little 
> bugs that can throw a wrench in the whole operation. I can understand 
> why the core team wouldn't want to give someone commit access only for 
> the 'little' things — that's kind of like handing someone a gun to 
> swat flies. A better solution might be to have trusted users without 
> access review patches and leave their comments on tickets.
>
> P.S. Trying to get things by whining rarely works past the age of 5.
> Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vid Luther <vid at zippykid.com>
> Sender: wp-hackers-bounces at lists.automattic.com
> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2010 17:12:28
> To: <wp-hackers at lists.automattic.com>
> Reply-To: wp-hackers at lists.automattic.com
> Subject: Re: [wp-hackers] The problem with Contributions and This Thread
>
> So.. why not let Jacob become a core committer and be the person who
> handles the low hanging fruit? If his claims about being the # 5
> contributor are true,
> he's definitely given his time, and if he's willing to put in the work..
> why not let him?
>
> I think what Doug is asking, is what proof do we have that having Jacob
> handle this is going to make WordPress suck?
> If so many of his patches have been accepted, it's a safe bet he's got
> the hang of things..
>
> Being an outsider to WordPress, but not open source projects.. I don't
> see how getting bugs resolved is a bad thing...especially if the bug
> made it through the triage process and was marked as low priority..
>
> _______________________________________________
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 	Vid Luther <mailto:vid at zippykid.com>
> December 30, 2010 5:12 PM
>
>
> So.. why not let Jacob become a core committer and be the person who 
> handles the
> low hanging fruit? If his claims about being the # 5 contributor are true,
> he's definitely given his time, and if he's willing to put in the 
> work.. why not
> let him?
>
> I think what Doug is asking, is what proof do we have that having 
> Jacob handle
> this is going to make WordPress suck?
> If so many of his patches have been accepted, it's a safe bet he's got 
> the hang
> of things..
>
> Being an outsider to WordPress, but not open source projects.. I don't 
> see how
> getting bugs resolved is a bad thing...especially if the bug made it 
> through the
> triage process and was marked as low priority..
>
> > 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Pete Mall <mailto:pete at jointforcestech.com>
> > December 30, 2010 4:58 PM
> >
> >
> > Core team is always expanding... Just look at the all the new committers
> > this year. I don't think the core team will (or should) ever give up on
> > reviewing all changesets and rely on others for regression testing.
> >
> > Cheers!
> > Pete
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > wp-hackers mailing list
> > wp-hackers at lists.automattic.com
> > http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
> > 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Doug Stewart <mailto:zamoose at gmail.com>
> > December 30, 2010 4:49 PM
> >
> >
> > Then perhaps the core team ought to either 1) expand or 2) not worry 
> so much
> > about each changeset and allow others to regression test.
> >
> > --
> > Doug Stewart
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > wp-hackers mailing list
> > wp-hackers at lists.automattic.com
> > http://lists.automattic.com/mailman/listinfo/wp-hackers
> > 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Peter Westwood <mailto:peter.westwood at ftwr.co.uk>
> > December 30, 2010 4:43 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The core team try and review every change that is made to the code 
> to ensure
> > that it is correct, doesn't introduce bugs etc.
> >
> > There time should be focussed on the most important bugs.
> >
> > Giving someone access to rush through all those easy trivial lower 
> priority
> > tickets with patches and commit them increases the workload for the 
> core team
> > and anyone else who reviews all the changesets.
> >
> > Therefore less time is available for important bugs.
> >
> > Cheers
> > 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Doug Stewart <mailto:zamoose at gmail.com>
> > December 30, 2010 2:44 PM
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 5:52 AM, Peter Westwood
> >
> > With all due respect, where's your proof for this? I suppose that a
> > good bit of this judgement would need to be made on a ticket-by-ticket
> > basis, but still...
> >
> > If the tickets are legitimate yet somehow lower priority, how could
> > there possibly be no benefit?
> >
> > 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Peter Westwood <mailto:peter.westwood at ftwr.co.uk>
> > December 30, 2010 4:52 AM
> >
> >
> >
> > Giving someone commit access to focus on lower priority tickets 
> benefits no-one.
> >
> > It just causes code churn, lack of project focus, and makes it more 
> likely
> > that important bugs will get ignored.
> >
> > Cheers
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 	Pete Mall <mailto:pete at jointforcestech.com>
> December 30, 2010 4:58 PM
>
>
> Core team is always expanding... Just look at the all the new committers
> this year. I don't think the core team will (or should) ever give up on
> reviewing all changesets and rely on others for regression testing.
>
> Cheers!
> Pete
>
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