[wp-forums] Policy??

[Otto]

Dot 07:

Hi! I'm Otto, and I removed the conversation, and I emailed you about the
issue as well. But if you want to hash it out in public, cool.

First, no, what you said is not true. And you quoted me to back it up too,
which is actually pretty funny to me. Essentially, you took my words out of
context from the conversation we had.

Originally, several of the reviews on your plugin were removed for
sockpuppetry. I don't know which moderator removed them, and it really
doesn't matter. When you asked the plugins team about it, I investigated
and found that there was indeed evidence of sockpuppetry. Many reviews were
left from identical IP addresses. Many of them were from accounts created
within minutes of each other. And so forth. Sock puppets were indeed
created and used to leave reviews on your plugin.

Now, in that sweep that some moderator took, they deleted a number of
reviews all at the same time. Anything that looked "fake". This happened
solely because of the sock puppetry that occurred. Some of these reviews,
as you showed me, were legitimate and real reviews. I reinstated those.

However, apparently you are taking my attempt to explain these mistakes to
you as some kind of statement of policy. This is not actually the case. I
was simply attempting to explain how the issue occurred.

As I stated to you in previous emails, when a moderator (who is a human
being) is seeing sock puppets leaving reviews, then they are going to look
at all the reviews. If they see a review which says very little, and which
is on an account that was created at the same time as the review was left,
and it gives it 5 stars, *and the moderator has already found real sock
puppet accounts*, then yes, it's likely that they would delete that review.

This is not a statement of policy, this is a statement of human behavior.

Moderators are people, not robots. They don't "implement policy", they
moderate the forums according to their standards of right and wrong and
good and evil.

So yes, I removed your posts stating what you thought our "policy" was, and
I removed the conversation you had with esmi because it was inappropriate
to have that conversation in somebody else's plugin review thread.
Regardless, you are mistaken about our policy, and esmi was correct to try
to point that out to you. This is not an attempt to hide anything, but an
attempt to correct misinformation that you are spreading on our forums and
to our users.

Additionally, please do not post private email correspondence on the forums
without permission. Normally, we straight up ban people for doing that, but
since you actually quoted me, and I don't really mind a whole lot, I'm
letting it go. Nevertheless, you need permission to quote somebody else's
email, at least you do on our forums.

-Otto





On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 5:46 PM, Dot 07 <dot07.com at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Sorry to bother you in your busy quest to keep WordPress safe from those
> of us who lose it once in a while. But, I have an issue that I would like
> to call attention to.
>
> When a moderator takes an aggressive stance and then makes a false
> accusation against me and then closes at topic, acting like what you often
> refer to as "Bozo". I think you have a responsibility to the community to
> moderate each other.
>
> Here is a link to a review posted by someone using our plugin Users Ultra.
> https://wordpress.org/support/topic/wow-simply-amazing?replies=11
>
> In response to that review, I noted that the users should become active in
> the forums because of recent email content sent to my partner. Then esmi
> jumped in and claimed that what I was saying was not true and asked where I
> got the information. I provided the information and then esmi jumped on
> something else.
>
> I have not been aggressive, rude, or attempted to call anyone names. I
> haven't challenged the authority of any moderator. I responded to the
> review of our plugin and then I am caught up in an aggressive response by a
> "long time moderator" who kept coming back after I provided the truthful
> information asked for, only to take it another step further.
>
> What does all of this hostility accomplish?
>
> I gave the information asked for. That should have stopped the hostile
> position of the moderator.
>
> Personally, I don't believe this type of behavior is warranted on either
> side. If any one of us normal users were to continue to argue like esmi
> did, we could possibly be banned from participating on WordPress.org. How
> do you expect to enforce your policies of how people get banned when
> moderators behave in the same manor that could possibly result in a regular
> user being banned?
>
> I see esmi do this type of thing more often than help. And it is
> discouraging.
>
> Yes, one of us on our plugin team made an error in judgement and that
> error was corrected. The nastiness expressed by esmi is totally uncalled
> for. And the "I have to have the last word" tact taken in this situation, I
> believe warrants some sanctioning of the moderator. I asked esmi to stop
> repeatedly and esmi just kept coming. Then made the false accusation that I
> was stating a policy that isn't a policy. Well, according to the words I
> quoted by both Otto and Ipsenu (Mika Epstein), there is a policy that is
> being applied that goes beyond what is available at the link provided by
> esmi.
>
> Whether or not anyone agrees with what I had to say in response to the
> reviewer, what I said is true. There is a policy being used to enforce
> (much needed) protection against spam and self promoting reviews. I don't
> argue that the policy is wrong. I do state that the policy (or practice)
> exists and I showed the quoted text to prove it.
>
> The last statement made before esmi closed the review, is totally
> incorrect in my opinion. I have not made any false claim and closing the
> topic with an accusation that I am saying something that is not true is a
> poor example of what a WordPress moderator should be doing. Please, I have
> violated no rule. On the contrary, esmi and the tact being used is
> violating the spirit of the moderation team, from all I have seen.
>
> I don't expect many of you to break ranks, but I think it should be noted
> that you, as moderators should take a break when you get a little over the
> top with the aggression. That thread shouldn't have been hijacked by a
> moderator who wanted to pitch a fit about something said that I proved to
> be true.
>
> I don't mind making adjustments to the words I use to encourage people to
> give adequate reviews and to become active in the forums. However, when I
> say something that is completely true (by quoted content as well as what is
> being practiced), a moderator needs to step back and stop making
> accusations that what is being said isn't true. It in fact is true.
>
> Please forgive the length, but there are some issues with this moderator
> that should be dealt with. There is no need for this kind of behavior on
> the forums from either side. And it is unfortunate that any of us should
> have to feel like there are sides.
>
> I realize esmi likes to jump in and make remarks that are unfriendly and
> caustic fairly often. But someone somewhere should care about the fact that
> the rest of us are just as human and are entitled to the same respect we
> are expected to give to the "authority of the moderators".
>
> From all that I can determine, esmi took personally what I had to say. And
> really, it has nothing to do with esmi. It has to do with users having
> their reviews removed, and "Because we'll think they're fake and delete
> them. And eventually if it gets to be too much of a burden, we'll remove
> your plugin", and the fact that we are proactive in trying to make sure the
> reviews we receive are actually reviews and that those who do review become
> active in the forums so that they don't fall victim to the "I "think" it's
> a fake review" policy being used.
>
> We just want to be part of the community. We have offered a quality
> project and we have called attention to something that is being done. We
> are not violating any rule. There is no need to be treated by any moderator
> the way esmi has done here. We aren't shouting it from the rooftops, we are
> responding to reviews telling the truth. We aren't taking it to the rants
> section of the forums. Only those who look at our reviews know it. We
> aren't trying to cause problems. We are simply calling attention to a
> practice that is currently being used to screen reviews.
>
> I'm sure there are going to be a few who disagree, as esmi has done, I
> don't mind that, but what I have said is true from what has been said to
> our team. Is it now a WP crime to post what we have been told, when a
> moderator asks us to prove what we are saying?
>
> I would kindly ask that the exchange be removed between me and esmi.
> Unless I violate a rule (and apparently not all of them are published), and
> I do something wrong, there is really no need for any moderator to highjack
> a review like that and claim I am making false statements after I showed
> with quoted text that what is was saying was true.
>
> The tact of claiming there is no policy (or practice) if it isn't posted
> clearly on the welcome page is a not right, when you admit the practice in
> emails. And especially when you admit that you "fully endorse the
> practice". If it's a justifiable practice, why is there a need to hide what
> is being done? I don't agree with the way it is being done, but I recognize
> the need for it. And therefore, I approach it from my point of view and the
> views expressed by some very influential individuals in the emails we
> received.
>
> Now I see that my responses to reviewers are being removed . How much
> "moderation" is moderation? Why am I being moderated for saying what I have
> seen in writing?
>
>
>
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