<html><head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">Just as an FYI, we have a
goal! Be done with version 1 by the Summit! :D<br>
<br>
We'd love help getting the last pages bashed out. Perfection will come,
but as with all things, release and then iterate ;)<br>
<br>
<blockquote style="border: 0px none;"
cite="mid:CACfjN6oECV5mhLVAoe9TAk78zc-eQuj_S7PgqsRY10QpoJH1Ug@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr"><div
style="display:table;width:100%;border-top:1px solid
#EDEEF0;padding-top:5px"> <div
style="display:table-cell;vertical-align:middle;padding-right:6px;"><img
photoaddress="fittingsites@gmail.com" photoname="Jerry Bates"
src="cid:part1.05010909.02070106@ipstenu.org" name="postbox-contact.jpg"
height="25px" width="25px"></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:100%">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:fittingsites@gmail.com"
style="color:#737F92
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none
!important;">Jerry Bates</a></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;">
<font color="#9FA2A5"><span style="padding-left:6px">October 5, 2012
11:55 AM</span></font></div></div></div>
<div style="color:#888888;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody">Hi Marc,<div><br></div><div>Again,
I invite you to join us on the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://make.wordpress.org/support/editor-access/">User Manual
project</a>; I don't think any of us working on docs currently believe
that it is a perfect system (and we debate it pretty frequently) but it
is at least a place to start. Currently new users have <i>nothing to
turn</i> to from WordPress.org and that is a gap we're all trying to
bridge. </div>
<div><br></div><div>You may not agree with it as it stands now, but our
aim is to release early and often, and refine as we go. Who knows where
we'll be when we get to version 2 and beyond, but for now any help is
appreciated, and would place you at the heart of discussions as to how
to make it better as we move forward.</div>
<div><br></div><div>That or work on a plugin; you're getting a lot
of encouragement here to explore that route as well. </div><div><br></div><div>Best
of luck,</div><div><br></div><div>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
Jerry Bates | Creative Director | FittingSites.com</div><div>WEB: <a
moz-do-not-send="true" target="_blank" href="http://fittingsites.com/">http://FittingSites.com</a></div><div>Twitter:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://twitter.com/JerrySarcastic">https://twitter.com/JerrySarcastic</a><br>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>
<br>
<br><br><br></div>
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<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr"><div
style="display:table;width:100%;border-top:1px solid
#EDEEF0;padding-top:5px"> <div
style="display:table-cell;vertical-align:middle;padding-right:6px;"><img
photoaddress="jane@automattic.com" photoname="Jane Wells"
src="cid:part2.09030703.05030609@ipstenu.org" name="postbox-contact.jpg"
height="25px" width="25px"></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:100%">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jane@automattic.com"
style="color:#737F92
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none
!important;">Jane Wells</a></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;">
<font color="#9FA2A5"><span style="padding-left:6px">October 5, 2012
11:02 AM</span></font></div></div></div>
<div style="color:#888888;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/5/12 11:42 AM, Marc Beneteau
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADZaJgPD202CrV6TcYjMvsYu9Wafc7hgRX7_BrYuABy5BW3KdA@mail.gmail.com"><p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sorry
Jane I am now confused.<span style="">
</span>"that is what the support group is working on </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
href="http://svnbook.red-bean.com/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://svnbook.red-bean.com/</a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">"…
you
mean the Codex people (this list)?<span style=""> </span>Or
is this a separate group?<span style=""> </span>I want to be
invited to that.</span></p>
</blockquote>
There's no special invitation, you just start contributing. The
group is at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://make.wordpress.org/support" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://make.wordpress.org/support</a>.
That includes both
support forums and documentation. The Codex is the existing
documentation. The handbooks are the new documentation project they
are working on there. Review the history on the blog there for more
information. This list (along with the forums list) is
semi-deprecated in favor of the blog, which is more accessible to
potential contributors. <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADZaJgPD202CrV6TcYjMvsYu9Wafc7hgRX7_BrYuABy5BW3KdA@mail.gmail.com"><p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> I
have stuff to contribute but I am not very interested in
working on a
legacy platform, I hope that's clear now, </span></p>
</blockquote>
It's been clear from your first email, as has been our disinterest
in pursuing the windows-style platform you prefer.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADZaJgPD202CrV6TcYjMvsYu9Wafc7hgRX7_BrYuABy5BW3KdA@mail.gmail.com"><p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">and
also I disagree with you "</span><span style=""> the SVN book
is just HTML</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
", the
organization of the topics is crucial, </span></p>
</blockquote>
Yes, but the organization of topics is CONTENT, not PLATFORM.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADZaJgPD202CrV6TcYjMvsYu9Wafc7hgRX7_BrYuABy5BW3KdA@mail.gmail.com"><p
class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">and
also the decision of whether this is
going to context-sensitive help inside the dashboard</span></p>
</blockquote>
Documentation and core ux are two different things. Changing the way
help is treated in the dashboard would go through the core team.
Nacin is the release lead, and 3.5 is already in beta, so
suggestions for new features will probably be taken in January at
the beginning of the 3.6 cycle. But again, there is nothing stopping
you from making a plugin that does things exactly the way you want
them, and releasing that. If someone who hasn't contributed to core
before wants to make suggestions to change the core ux/ui, having a
publicly released plugin that does what is being suggested will get
more attention than someone just coming in cold and saying "I think
you should do x". <br>
<br>
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</pre></div>
<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr"><div
style="display:table;width:100%;border-top:1px solid
#EDEEF0;padding-top:5px"> <div
style="display:table-cell;vertical-align:middle;padding-right:6px;"><img
photoaddress="docs@manifesting.net" photoname="Marc Beneteau"
src="cid:part3.02010204.03000507@ipstenu.org"
name="compose-unknown-contact.jpg" height="25px" width="25px"></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:100%">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:docs@manifesting.net"
style="color:#737F92
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none
!important;">Marc Beneteau</a></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;">
<font color="#9FA2A5"><span style="padding-left:6px">October 5, 2012
10:42 AM</span></font></div></div></div>
<div style="color:#888888;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sorry
Jane I am now confused.<span style="">
</span>"that is what the support group is working on </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://svnbook.red-bean.com/">http://svnbook.red-bean.com/</a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">"…
you
mean the Codex people (this list)?<span style=""> </span>Or
is this a separate group?<span style=""> </span>I want to be
invited to that.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
have stuff to contribute but I am not very interested in working on a
legacy platform, I hope that's clear now, and also I disagree with you "</span><span
style=""> the SVN book is just HTML</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">
", the
organization of the topics is crucial, and also the decision of whether
this is
going to context-sensitive help inside the dashboard (which I strongly
recommend and is part of the point of all this IMHO)</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Marc</span></p>
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<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr"><div
style="display:table;width:100%;border-top:1px solid
#EDEEF0;padding-top:5px"> <div
style="display:table-cell;vertical-align:middle;padding-right:6px;"><img
photoaddress="jane@automattic.com" photoname="Jane Wells"
src="cid:part2.09030703.05030609@ipstenu.org" name="postbox-contact.jpg"
height="25px" width="25px"></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:100%">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jane@automattic.com"
style="color:#737F92
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none
!important;">Jane Wells</a></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;">
<font color="#9FA2A5"><span style="padding-left:6px">October 5, 2012
9:21 AM</span></font></div></div></div>
<div style="color:#888888;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/5/12 9:53 AM, Marc Beneteau
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADZaJgPJXdj6-mqxFNG-x8RxrEuE7X1GZuxpnB9X01kFG1fsRQ@mail.gmail.com">I
believe that Winhelp / Javahelp is the best
documentation platform </blockquote>
Many people in this community just disagree. Sometimes we all just
have to agree to disagree and move on.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADZaJgPJXdj6-mqxFNG-x8RxrEuE7X1GZuxpnB9X01kFG1fsRQ@mail.gmail.com">I
may pursue resources you suggest but to be quite
frank it's unlikely to happen without institutional support </blockquote>
I understand, but if it's not a passion project for you, it's
unlikely to get institutional support from an institution that isn't
particularly interested in it as a format to begin with.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADZaJgPJXdj6-mqxFNG-x8RxrEuE7X1GZuxpnB9X01kFG1fsRQ@mail.gmail.com">My
request was for a project manager, if I could get
that we could likely get things started </blockquote>
I would also love to have a project manager to oversee our official
documentation projects... I've been looking for someone to take that
on for several years, in fact, which is one reason we don't have a
full awesome set of handbooks already. Again, if no one volunteered
to join you, you should probably look for a collaborator on a
different list. We cannot offer you a subsidized project manager for
this project. <br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADZaJgPJXdj6-mqxFNG-x8RxrEuE7X1GZuxpnB9X01kFG1fsRQ@mail.gmail.com">
I also like very much <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
href="http://svnbook.red-bean.com/" moz-do-not-send="true">http://svnbook.red-bean.com/</a>
if that is a real option let's do it. <br>
</span></blockquote>
That is what the support group is working on. They are working on
content first. The "platform" for the SVN book is just HTML; there's
nothing special to build.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADZaJgPJXdj6-mqxFNG-x8RxrEuE7X1GZuxpnB9X01kFG1fsRQ@mail.gmail.com"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
It can always be converted to Winhelp later when you all see the
light ;)<br>
</span></blockquote>
You are free to convert any freely released content into this
format, but again, this format is not one that we intend to pursue.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CADZaJgPJXdj6-mqxFNG-x8RxrEuE7X1GZuxpnB9X01kFG1fsRQ@mail.gmail.com"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""></span>I
am trying to play with y'all, help me out will you<br></blockquote>
I think multiple people on this list have tried to be helpful and
have pointed to the various avenues of contribution. If you don't
want to participate in any of those channels, and just want to do
your own thing, that's fine. Either way I think everyone agrees that
there's more than one way to help the community. <br>
j<br>
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</pre></div>
<div style="margin:30px 25px 10px 25px;" class="__pbConvHr"><div
style="display:table;width:100%;border-top:1px solid
#EDEEF0;padding-top:5px"> <div
style="display:table-cell;vertical-align:middle;padding-right:6px;"><img
photoaddress="docs@manifesting.net" photoname="Marc Beneteau"
src="cid:part3.02010204.03000507@ipstenu.org"
name="compose-unknown-contact.jpg" height="25px" width="25px"></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;width:100%">
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:docs@manifesting.net"
style="color:#737F92
!important;padding-right:6px;font-weight:bold;text-decoration:none
!important;">Marc Beneteau</a></div> <div
style="display:table-cell;white-space:nowrap;vertical-align:middle;">
<font color="#9FA2A5"><span style="padding-left:6px">October 5, 2012
8:53 AM</span></font></div></div></div>
<div style="color:#888888;margin-left:24px;margin-right:24px;"
__pbrmquotes="true" class="__pbConvBody">Jane,<br><br>yes you are right,
perhaps this is not the right forum for this type of request<br><br>You
are also right that I believe that Winhelp / Javahelp is the best
documentation platform, and that I am very stubborn about this. 99% of
commercial software vendors agree with me as do the hundreds of people
who have bought into my platform. I also get excited at the idea of
context-sensitive help inside WordPress dashboard, call me weird<br>
<br>I may pursue resources you suggest but to be quite frank it's
unlikely to happen without institutional support since I have my own
platform that fills my needs already. My request was for a project
manager, if I could get that we could likely get things started (and btw
there was never any question of paid development, any technical school
or university would be happy to lend student support to such a venture,
but someone still needs to initiate it)<br>
<br>I also like very much <span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://svnbook.red-bean.com/">http://svnbook.red-bean.com/</a>
if that is a real option let's do it. It can always be converted to
Winhelp later when you all see the light ;), and/or when the platform is
ready for prime-time.<br>
<br></span>I am trying to play with y'all, help me out will you<br><br>marc<br><br><br><br><br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br><span>Mika A Epstein (aka Ipstenu)<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ipstenu.org">http://ipstenu.org</a> | <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://halfelf.org">http://halfelf.org</a><br>
<br>
</span></div>
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